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From Paul Fremantle <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Tuscany SOA Project
Date Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:25:24 GMT
Firstly I have to say I support this on principle. I think - looking at the
documents briefly - that there is overlap to a number of Apache projects (
e.g. HiveMind),
but I believe in a broad set of components in Apache. I know that the
proposal has a wide variety of experienced Apache committers, but if I am
happy to help mentor this.

Now - can someone give me an idea of how "open" the model is? In other words
are the specifications behind Tuscany open to being modified? Will they be
submitted to a standards body and in what timeframe? It would be good to
know that Apache and in particular the committers can have input into the
model and not just write code to a fixed specification that has no way for
committers to improve except if they work for one of the publishing


On 12/1/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <> wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2005, at 3:43 PM, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> > As much as I would enjoy seeing two umbrella projects duel over
> > an amorphous set of marketing terms invented by IBM, I think the
> > ASF should be developing products, not architectural styles.
> > Although, calling SOA an architectural style would imply that it has
> > some constraints -- does anyone know what they are?
> Aren't you being a *tad* harsh here, Roy?  The proposal isn't to
> develop an architectural style, but software for people working in
> that style. (Whatever that is...)
> So it's fair to take pot shots at SOA - we all do - but I think
> there's an earnest effort here, and there's code that will seed it.
> >
> > I think we need to reorganize around federations, but that's a
> > very long discussion that I have no time for right now.  We certainly
> > don't need more than one WS/SOA federation.
> WS and SOA are actually different, IMO, the former [usually] used by
> the latter, but by no means required.  I have no strong feelings if
> this needs to be sponsored by WS for some reason, but this is day 0
> of incubation, there's a long road ahead, and I think that more
> information will be available further down the road.  Right now, the
> dynamics around SOA and SOA-ish things at Apache (and elsewhere) are
> very fluid, and I'm betting we're going to see a bunch of interesting
> changes.
> >
> > Please make the proposal specific to a single, technical product
> > line that has objective criteria against which you can make basic
> > decisions about what to release and when it is ready to release.
> > That way we aren't just sponsoring a bunch of individuals, each
> > working on their own solo project within an opaque mist of vague
> > relationships.
> I haven't seen the code, but they seem to be down the road to such a
> thing already, and just want to do it here, with a major benefit of
> dissolving said 'opaque mist' :)
> geir
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
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