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From Justin Erenkrantz <>
Subject Re: Is the incubator out of control?
Date Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:23:57 GMT
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 11:21:47PM -0800, Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> Although I'm not sure we should take that step right now, I don't
> think that's such a crazy suggestion.  I do believe we should rethink
> the branding of incubating project:
> Today, we complain that corporations working on incubating projects
> are taking advantage of the Apache brand.  We wonder why the press and
> public aren't aware of the distinction of incubating projects, and yet
> we *require* these projects always preface their name with the same
> master brand we use on fully endorse projects, "Apache".
> We can't keep a low bar for incoming incubating projects and allow for
> this confusion.  We may indeed need a multibrand strategy when it
> comes to incubating projects.

This comes out of the two part 'mission' of the Incubator:

- Deal with legal issues around a codebase to certify 'cleanliness'
- Build a community that can stand on its own in 'The Apache Way'

I'm all in favor of enforcing a strict embargo until the Incubator PMC
approves a proposal, an initial code drop lands, and the mailing lists are
created.  Until those happen, any active publicity claiming it to be a part
of the ASF is a flat-out lie.  (In the future, the PRC is almost certainly
going to reject any releases before this happens.)

However, after those steps occur (which should be relatively quickly in the
order of a few weeks), removing the Apache brand from podlings would be
incredibly harmful.  We *want* these projects to grow and to become
full-fledged ASF projects capable of making decisions on their own.  How
would they be created without the "Apache" name there in the first place?
There aren't going to be full-fledged projects and communities that just
walk in the door and become versed in our way with the quick blessing or a
nod.  If that were the case, they don't have any need for the ASF.  They
can stay where they are.

The only reason that these projects can have the 'Apache' brand is because
a member of the Foundation is willing to act as mentor *and* the Incubator
PMC approves each interim release.  If the mentor isn't keeping the project
in line with respect to our values, then the Incubator or the 'destination'
PMC needs to step in and provide guidance or terminate it.  -- justin

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