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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal
Date Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:42:33 GMT
On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 04:14:22PM +0100, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> I'm quite puzzled by this proposal. As I understand it, its mainly about 
> a set of Eclipse plugins for Ajax applications and the Zimbra library 
> that, among other features, provides a set of SWT-like widgets.

How is that puzzling?

> Also, this proposal pops up right after I mention on members@ that 
> several projects at Apache are using or plan to use Dojo [1] and that we 
> talked about inviting them. I sincerely hope this is just a coincidence.

Why? Even though it seems to be (and is likely to be since the proposal
looks like it took some preparing), why would lack of coincidence between
these events neccessarily be bad? If Sam were to have mentioned to the
guys working on this proposal something along the lines of "dudes. Several
ASF peeps seem to be getting more interested in AJAX stuff. You should
hurry up a bit with that proposal of yours" that would've pretty much made
sense to me. Note: Sam specifically said he did not say something like that
at all.

> So the questions are:
> - is the ASF the place for Eclipse extensions? I don't deny the ability 
> to _existing_ project to host their tooling, but this isn't the case here.

IMHO that's a very valid question to which the current answer from the
incubator is "yes, if there's sufficient interest from existing ASF
members" with "sufficient" somewhat under discussion. I'll suggest that
changing the answer to that question should be tackled independently of
this proposal.

IANAL. But from talking with Cliff at AC it seems there's not neccessarily
a licensing barrier either.

> - why incubate an Ajax library that none of the current ASF projects 
> uses nor plans to use, unless I missed something?

for all the usual reasons. "ties with existing ASF projects" is a question
we sometimes ask but the rationale for even asking the question has never
been written down in an email before (I think). I think what you're "missing"
is 2 years of history in how we're doing incubation (which often involves
"stuff that no existing ASF project uses or plans to use" when incubation
started, like, ehm, Harmony, or Geronimo, or SpamAssassin, or ...)


I personally feel that wanting to draw projects into the ASF *just* because
other ASF projects want to use that stuff is Pretty Bad(tm). It should be
easy and accepted and encouraged for ASF projects to use stuff that lives
and breathes outside of the ASF if you ask me.


Hmm. I think your email is more puzzling to me than the original proposal :-)
(A heavyweight java-based IDE for doing what's essentially designed as
"lightweight" seems easier to just fix the embed-java-in-the-
browser problem, like Stefano is doing with Piggy Bank...oh well...)


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