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From Davanum Srinivas <>
Subject Re: Incubating java projects
Date Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:45:12 GMT

Then at least the proposal should be honest enough, not to name names.
If we don't know what ServiceMix's needs are, we cannot make sure the
design of Synapse will fit right with ServiceMix. No one is asking for
a code drop. Asking for involvement, i think that's what a community
means. getting involved. SM did not have to come into Apache to
increase cooperation. It could have been done before.

Why talk publicly about strong ties to Tuscany/Synapse in public
forums and blogs (example - when
there is no intention in the field to community building aspects? BTW,
Here at Apache community building involves hanging out on mailing
lists *NOT* IRC. I can point you to several folks who have strong
reservations about IRC usage in certain projects.


On 12/21/05, Dan Diephouse <> wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> > James,
> >
> > Incubation process is not set in stone. Just last week, we voted on
> > standardizing the mailing list names. So it is a mix of good
> > judgement, experience, consensus and rules. If you insist we can put
> > start a VOTE on pmc@incubator. I think you are part of that as well.
> >
> > I did bring up issues on the pmc@geronimo mailing lists and we
> > resolved it. As to "related-ness". I'd even be ok with ActiveMQ as a
> > TLP or ServiceMix as a TLP. But it does not seem right to be part of
> > Geronimo as a sub project. I'd prefer ServiceMix folks to work more
> > closely with WS folks or even move to WS-land. But that's another
> > story. FYI, am and Guillaume Nodet did work during the hackathon on
> > some stuff. But i'd like to see more closer cooperation. Especially
> > for items that you need and those that affect Geronimo like JAX-WS
> > 2.0/JAXB. It's not like we want all ws stuff to be in ws pmc. JSR 181
> > in Beehive and WSRP4J in portals are good examples of sister projects
> > that still work closely with Axis dev folks.
> >
> > Also, what does "community" means? does it mean existing folks who are
> > working on the projects already at codehaus? Especially when Syanpse
> > and Axis are mentioned in the proposal and we don't see anyone show up
> > on the dev mailing lists, it's just fishy to say the least. FYI, this
> > is not the first time i had to do this. I did this with beehive too.
> > See my post in Oct 2004 articulating the same concerns with beehive.
> >
> First, I don't know what you are expecting regarding Syanpse and Axis.
> Synapse hasn't even done a milestone yet so there isn't much to
> integrate with JBI. Axis 2 has done mile stones but enough people are
> using it yet for the SM team to spend their time on it. And I think if
> you'll look closely it is already possible to work with Axis 1.x
> services in SM.
> Second, I don't think you can expect SM to come to you and flop a bunch
> of code out there which makes the integration perfect. I originally came
> to the ServiceMix guys with XFire integration and thats how it got
> integrated. That in turn got me involved with ServiceMix and Guillaume
> in turn has helped XFire a little. Its reciprocal.
> Also, I hope you aren't implying that ServiceMix has created an
> exclusive community of Codehaus people. I have seen the ServiceMix team
> be more than helpful to myself and to others who joined in both in and
> outside the Codehaus/Apache communitys. In fact, they MUST. ServiceMix's
> job is to not play favorites and integrate with everyone. Why must
> ServiceMix work extra close with the WS PMC? I'm sure when people start
> needing integration with WS-* projects that will happen. Thats how open
> source works right?
> Cheers,
> - Dan
> --
> Dan Diephouse
> Envoi Solutions LLC
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