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From Rodent of Unusual Size <Ken.C...@Golux.Com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Derby from the incubator
Date Sun, 03 Apr 2005 15:02:53 GMT

Ted Leung wrote:
> -1
> I am surprised that people think the committer diversity issues are not 
> an issue for graduation.

If Derby's destination was to be a TLP, I would agree completely,
and not even have started this.  As it is, however, it's headed
to join an existing TLP -- the DB project.

If a podling is destined the become a TLP, it obviously needs to
demonstrate conformance and viability across all aspects.  If it's
going to become part of an existing TLP, however, I think the
emphasis is (or should be) much more on making sure the contribution
is safe (IP issues) and that the people will fit into the Apache
milieu.  Growing the committer list is something I think is reasonable
to pass over to the parent TLP, at least once the podling has shown
that it's willing to acquire diversity.  The TLP will be providing
some diversity of its own, since it has a PMC of which the podling's
PPMC will only be a part, and the TLP will provide continuance of
the oversight begun in the incubator.

I *don't* think it's the job of the incubator to duplicate work
the TLPs can and do handle themselves.  The incubator's unique
added-value is vetting the contribution and educating the community
coming to Apache as a blob rather than as individuals.

If a TLP starts up its own new package, does any of it have to go
through the incubator?  No, because the code will be starting with
the right IP and the committers are already part of the Apache
environment.  The incubator's task is to make sure that something
coming in from outside can mesh as well as something started from
inside.  An internally-started package can fail due to lack of
diversity (among other things) just as much as one coming from

At least one person from the DB PMC has voted in favour of graduation,
which I hope means that the project understands the issues of
assuming oversight and feels comfortable doing so.  Having more
people from the DB PMC/project weigh in on the vote would be
nice. :-)

I'm in favour of graduation because I don't think there's anything
more the incubator can do for Derby aside from erecting obstacles
for the package and a group of people who have already demonstrated
that they mesh well with our methodology.  However, I think I'm
too close to the issue, which is why I'm not voting.  At least not yet.
- --
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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