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From Thorsten Scherler <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Derby from the incubator
Date Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:13:02 GMT
On Mon, 2005-04-18 at 09:59 -0700, Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> On 4/18/05, Rodent of Unusual Size <> wrote:
> > 
> > Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> > >
> > > Wouldn't "how can we increase the number of new developers on Derby while
> > > still in incubation" a better question to ask?
> > 
> > I think only if the answer to 'does Derby need more committers before
> > it can graduate' is 'yes.'  Participation is growing nicely, but the Derby
> > PPMC is being careful not to hand out commit access like candy.
> I definitely don't think the PPMC should lower the standard for commit
> access, nor do I think the Incubator PMC should lower the standard for
> Incubator graduation.
> I'm really surprised we're even talking about graduation before Derby
> has met the most basic rule of three independent committers (didn't we
> just have a thread on this a few weeks ago about log4net?).  Once that
> has been met, I'd expect a discussion about whether the project has
> the kind of community that could continue to maintain and evolve the
> project even if one individual / company stopped contributing to it.
> I know that there are different opinions on the second point, but I
> believe the three committer rule is pretty widely agreed upon.

Actually lenya has been in the exact same situation a while ago. The
exact same condition was not made for a while.

The thing I learned as most important lesson is that Apache is *not*
about code but about community. I know that is one of the most used
phrases but it is (and has to be) true and *very* important.

What will happen if IBM will loose interest in Derby? Will the committer
still be there for the project or is it more that they are committing
because it is a paid job and as soon as they have to do it in their
spare time there is no project?

About "but the Derby PPMC is being careful not to hand out commit access
like candy" that is perfectly alright but are we doing this normally on
Apache? ...and how come they cannot find trust in active developer that
are around for a while and contributing on a regular basis. Every new
committer has to learn a lot and it may take a while but the project
will/has to help (her)him. If a project is not ready to invite more
people it is IMO not ready to leave the incubator.

> > I guess the basic question would be, 'Does keeping Derby in the incubator
> > add any value anywhere?'  At this point I feel moderately strongly that
> > it doesn't, but that's just me -- and I can be convinced otherwise. :-)
> I'm primarily concerned about the devaluation of the Apache brand by
> lowering our standards for what it means to have a strong, diverse
> community.

I think the same way like Cliff. The lesson that derby still needs to
learn is to trust and build a diverse community. 


"Together we stand, divided we fall!" 
Hey you (Pink Floyd)

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