incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Michael Wechner <>
Subject Re: [Summary ]Re: [TEST+VOTE] Lenya 1.2 Release
Date Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:02:22 GMT
Steven Noels wrote:

> Lenya has an awkward history IMHO. It has been force-fed into the 
> bowls of the ASF upon the idea that a community was more important 
> than code, and because of pet-peeves of people: the ASF needed a CMS 
> project, and Lenya would be a community seed for that - regardless of 
> the community aptness to serve as one. The original Lenya folks were 
> clueless about the Apache Open Source Way, but felt so much "invited" 
> into the ASF that they figured they were doing a good job. The 
> original number of committers was bloated, and their communication 
> about the incubation status of Lenya was tendencious at best. Wyona 
> didn't do a great job at opening up the project to the outside world 
> (other than dumping code into public CVS), and there wasn't much 
> direction or shared project ownership.

well, I think it was and is quite different, but it doesn't make sense 
to argue about perceptions.

I am not saying that none of us didn't make mistakes, but my perception 
is nevertheless quite different, especially since I see ourselves as 
individuals and not as a company within the Lenya community.

It certainly makes sense to learn from concrete mistakes, but not from
assumptions or perceptions, because we will probably never stop argueing.
Also I think all of us acted very promptly on requests from various sides.

So, I think the important thing is to look ahead and see the positive side
as Steven is stating below.

> What I see now is people empowering themselves and caring only about 
> the project, not about all the peripheral dreams or company ambitions. 
> This is a tremendous shift in project governance. I think the ASF 
> needs to acknowledge and endorse this shift and give these people the 
> ability to continue their course.


> Whether this course will be successful, we will only know within a 
> year or so. I hope these folks will be able to attract new committers 
> and continue what they started.

I am very optimistic on this, but I guess you know that ;-)


>>> I'll be carefully looking after ASF brand abuse however in the
>>> forthcoming months. This entire incubation episode has left me with
>>> dubious feelings: for a long time, I've been thinking that Lenya would
>>> be a sad example of premature ASF donation. It is good to see that some
>>> volunteers finally stepped up and managed to create real momentum, and
>>> I can only hope they will last for a long time. Lenya will still need
>>> to acquire more external contributors to help them with this effort.
>> I'm glad to hear about the latter part of that paragraph, but you 
>> have to
>> admit that the first part of the paragraph is enough to give one 
>> pause.  So
>> please explain why we should have a incubator release while there are 
>> still
>> so many questions regarding the viability of the community?  Yes, you 
>> are
>> indicating that there are new members within the Lenya community who are
>> focused on doing everything properly.  Great, but I'm still trying to
>> understand why there is a need to put out a distribution rather than 
>> put all
>> of the energy into helping Lenya conclude incubation and then release.
> As I said, it's just a matter of the community maturing, and feeling 
> two urges at the same time. Order isn't very important here.
> I hope this clarifies things a bit, feel free to nag me with other 
> questions.
> Cheers,
> </Steven>

Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc.  -   Open Source Content Management   -   Apache Lenya                  

To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message