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From Rolf Kulemann <>
Subject RE: [Summary ]Re: [TEST+VOTE] Lenya 1.2 Release
Date Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:09:56 GMT
On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 08:46, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Leo Simons wrote:
> > Noel, have your concerns been addressed?
> I think so.  They've been addressed in that they've been discussed.  Steven
> has been watching Lenya closely, particularly recently, and seems convinced
> that there has been a sea change in that community.  Whether or not it
> sticks remains to be seen.
> > Feel like changing your mind?
> What makes you think I had made it up before?  :-)  I was asking questions
> because I wanted both answers and discussion of the issues.  From the
> discussion, I feel most of the participants grasp the issues and concerns.
> I'm not going to agree that Lenya should release early and often, but if
> they want to put out a clearly marked incubation build as a "technology
> preview", and since they are finally going through the right procedure, I
> think we can accommodate that request.
> Mind you, building an end-user community is not an incubation priority.  We
> care about IP and development community, and the latter ought to be able to
> participate directly from source control.  Specifically, a comment like "it
> is important to get out official (incubation) release files soon since users
> and developers are waiting for a release to base their productive
> environments on" makes me nervous.  

Maybe u missed the word incubation in brackets? I think u should get
nervous if the Lenya community will not start actively to exit
incubation _after_ the (incubation not productive) release. I think most
of us did wake up during these discussions, so keep on sleeping well :)

> We don't want people assuming that code
> in the Incubator has the same imprimatur as code from ASF projects.  

IMO, that is _very_ important. When I started using Lenya it was good to
know that Lenya is under incubation, so I could lower my expectations on
stability and completeness. 

> I try
> to avoid the term "release" in connection with anything related to the
> Incubator because in Jakarta terminology, a "Release Build" is an official
> production package, and that is not going to come from the Incubator.  The
> focus ought to be on being able to leave the incubator, not putting out
> builds.  

Agreed, so I would propose the following. Think of if Lenya is ready to
exit incubation (iirc you think we are not). If you think Lenya is not
ready, let us do an incubation release.

> But insofar as having feedback helps to build the developer
> community, that's worth supporting, IMO, so long as the nature of being in
> the Incubator is properly marked and explained.


> I was just looking over  Seems
> to be about right.  Rolf should see
>, which is a peer of where
> Lenya will probably go.  

Yeah, thats what we had already a look on. The problem is I have no
write access to thats why I
put the archives (for the time of review) at , which seemed to be a
better idea to me anyway.

> Putting it under conveys less
> of an official nature than putting it, and we don't need
> to put it out on the mirroring system unless we're expecting many 100s of
> downloads.


Rolf Kulemann

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