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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: [VOTE] Granting committer status to log4net developers
Date Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:55:53 GMT
> The stated purpose of the Logging Services project is the inclusion of
> projects such as log4net, log4php, log4cpp or log4cxx.

Sounds great.  Wonderful.  That's exactly the kind of thing we all want to
see happen.

> These projects already are open sourced, some even under the Apache
> The various actors are working on the legal aspects. Once that is done,
> purpose does it serve to have the projects go through the incubator PMC
> then back into LS?

> Maybe I don't understand what the incubator is about but from where I
> stand it looks more like a bureaucratic hurdle rather than a
> service.

That isn't the Incubator's intent, purpose or role.  Let me explain, and see
if we can assuage your fears.

As I just replied to you in another message, you start by filling in a
STATUS form, which is a combination checklist and fill-in-the-blanks project
diary, recording when things were completed or happened.  If you complete
the STATUS form and there are no issues, then we (collectively known as a
PPMC, consisting of the Incubator PMC, the Logging PMC and the other
Committers on the project) vote for the project to "leave" the Incubator and
join the Logging PMC as an ASF project.  If there are unfulfilled issues,
then the PPMC works together to see that they get fulfilled.

> Once the legal aspects are resolved, why adopt such a radical
> position? Is it warranted?

As you can see now, I hope, resolving and recording those legal aspects is
one of the major "services" that the Incubator provides, or in this case,
that you do within the Incubator.  So there is no "radical position" or
conflict.  You are already doing the Incubation of your project.  The
Incubator is simply the place where you need to record the progress of that

> I am more than happy to revise my impressions.

I hope this helps.

	--- Noel

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