incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Alex Karasulu <>
Subject Re: an Incubator case study
Date Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:00:12 GMT
Agreed! Without process at this scale we're extremely suseptable to 
chaos.  Apache's future progress will revolve around embracing the 
process.  Without it we're in trouble.

Also keep in mind that when you start following a process its only
hard working with it for a few runs where you need to allocate energy
to following it and be concious about it.  After a while it becomes


> From: Leo Simons <>
> Date: 2004/01/14 Wed AM 07:17:49 EST
> To:,
> Subject: an Incubator case study
> Hi gang,
> The avalon project is currently merging an externally developed 
> codebase, "MerlinDeveloper", with an internally developed codebase that 
> has the same goals. The codebase is about 60 files. We found some 
> licensing issues when we started incubation (referenced LGPL code, wrong 
> license headers, etc etc), but these have all been resolved quickly by 
> the projects developer once we identified them.
> I'm one of the mentors of the project, and as a 'hobby' I've pretty much 
> made a detailed record of how much time it takes. So far I have spent:
> * 0 hours convincing the incubator that this project should be
>      incubated;
> * 1 hour convincing the avalon pmc that the project should be incubated;
> * 3 hours doing a code inspection (which would have likely taken me
>      2 hours longer, btw, hadn't there been forms and process
>      descriptions to use in incubator cvs, cause I would have had to find
>      out what to look for all by myself);
> * <1 hour filling out a status form, sending a status report, running
>      project acceptance votes for two PMCs;
> * 1 hour figuring out parts of the process as we go ("no, we don't
>      really need a mailing list"), but this is also part of my role as
>      incubator pmc member, so I'm not sure if I should book it as "time
>      spent incubating";
> * 4 hours explaining to various parties what we are doing, that it is
>      not bureaucratic, that it is not all a big formal mess, that this
>      thing really is required, etc etc.;
> * I'll probably spend a few more minutes tallying vote results and
>      notifying two PMCs of the results.
>  From this it is easy to see that if it weren't for all the resentment 
> by various parties towards the incubation process, it seems likely that 
> the import of the project would have actually been more efficient, and 
> easier, than if the import process would have been managed by the avalon 
> project all by itself, because avalon benefits from the expertise and 
> knowledge of the incubator project.
> I'll also note that 'defending' that something should be done and spent 
> time on is something that I really don't enjoy at all, so those 4 hours 
> spent count double IMHO.
> Do with this data what you please. The conclusion I personally draw from 
> it is "we should stop complaining about process, and JFDI".
> -- 
> cheers,
> - Leo Simons
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> For additional commands, e-mail:

To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message