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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: STATUS file compared/contrasted with an issue tracker
Date Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:20:06 GMT
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> I agree with Nicola Ken (and you) about using the STATUS file for
>>>  project status, and had originally thought to suggest that such
>>> change requests could be entered into the STATUS file, too.
>> I have checked in the incubator CVS a new version of the Incubator 
>> site, with a proposed new layout.
> Can you post a live copy to your home page or somewhere?

Ok, but the source files are also important, as they are what we will be 
actively working with.

BTW, IMHO that FAQ is atarting to come along nicely:

>>I am now stuck with exactly this issue, the STATUS files.
>>Could you give me a hand in making a version that can be
>>effectively used for identifying action items in order?
> Be happy to do so.  Of course, you won't be getting this until about 15
> hours after you posted, but yes.


>>We could use a status.xml file that contains information about who does
>>things, todos, and changes. The less nice side is that it's XML.
> Well, I want to hear Roy's thoughts, because the HTTP Server project seems
> to do a lot more in STATUS than most other projects.  Personally, I would
> record in the STATUS file the incubation related information.  Particularly
> issues related to status of legal issues, completion of exit criteria, and
> any other information that the Incubator PMC felt was important.  At the
> least, the STATUS file will naturally be polled by the PMC for each review
> cycle.  If the project chooses to copy the STATUS items into an issue
> tracker so that they'll receive periodic reminders of outstanding items,
> that would be their choice, but the only official document would be the
> STATUS file.  


> Since you want to use XML, if the XML were defined properly,
> someone could write a tool to generate a report of all outstanding items.
> But I don't think that we want to get into the process of building yet
> another ad hoc issue tracker.

Forrest already has a todo-changes-etc DTD that outputs the items. The 
upside is that the changes also produce an RSS feed.

> Or we could stick with plain text.  From what I think we are saying
> (including below), the original status file could come from a template,
> customized if/as necessary by the PMC and placed into the incubator CVS
> module.

That's what I have done now, but the current STATUS files are IMHO not 
suitable for the task.

In any case, I think that plaintext is needed here, so eventually I'll 
have also a text version of the above-stated DTDs so we can have the 
best of both worlds.

>>> The ASF has different projects doing things differently. In my 
>>> opinion, one of the interesting things with Incubator is that the
>>> Incubator is going to bring out those differences, and help to
>>> illuminate best practices across the ASF, not just for new
>>> projects.
>>True. But some things need to be taken into account nevertheless.
>>1 - security (authentication, authorization)
>>2 - history
>>3 - backups
>>4 - change messages to the Incubator Project
>>5 - one place to have all items tracked
>>CVS gives all of these, and IMHO no issue tracker can easily be made to
>>do it.
> AFAIK, a good issue tracker (bugzilla notwithstanding) will do all of the
> above.  

Through SSH? Can I easily point to a doc that shows what has been done 
in, let's say, 5 years from now?

> But I'm *not* saying that we should use an issue tracker for
> incubation status.  For one thing, we trust CVS and we don't afford any of
> the issue trackers the same degree of trust.

Exactly, agreed.

> So what, specifically, are we talking about in terms of your item #5?  The
> fact that you say "we are not talking about 200 action items, but 20" leads
> me to believe that we're in agreement, and talking about the status of items
> related to incubation.  And those we agree should be recorded in the STATUS
> file.

Exactly. The STATUS files of the projects in the incubator site CVS are 
about *incubation* STATUS.

>>they are free to *also* use an issue-tracker, as long as
>>the mentor reports these in CVS in a reasonabe timeframe
> We appear to be saying the same things, yes?

Yup :-)

Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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