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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: Disclaimer text for incubated projects
Date Sat, 04 Oct 2003 19:11:40 GMT
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>> Sam Ruby wrote:
>>> It seems to me a disclaimer on the website, perhaps also in the root 
>>> directory of the associated CVS trees, and a process which prevents 
>>> any official "release" to be created by projects in incubation should 
>>> be more than sufficient.
>> Sorry, but this has not worked.
> What exactly has not worked?  The disclaimers are new.  No disclaimers 
> are present in any CVS trees that I am aware of.

Which is why it hasn't worked. The problem is that it's not easy to both 
have all sites have that disclaimer and keep it there,.

> The process proposal 
> of not allowing releases from incubation is a novel one as far as I know.

True. In fact for me it's not in debate.

> If a project's destination is unknown, certainly it belongs in 
> incubation.  If it's destination is known, then I would think that there 
> is a value of be able to observe the community "in situo" before exiting 
> incubation.

It seems so, yes...

>> I knew that many did not want renamings to occur, being touted as 
>> "expensive", so I still stand behind my last proposal (that has been 
>> trimmed here) which seems to me like a possible "compromise":
>>     1 - the websites are placed in
>>     2 - these projects have as project logo the Incubator Logo
>>     3 - They all have as a bottom line disclaimer a note that the roject
>>         is in incubation
>> Note that point 2 and 3 have not much to do with infrastructure, and 
>> point 1 is not under direct control of this list, as the project 
>> members would still have access to the incubator-site module, as part 
>> of the project.
> 2 and 3 are not in debate.  We could achieve 1 with a symbolic link. 

Then basically we agree :-)

> Quite frankly, I'm more concerned about cvs and mailing lists than the 
> web site.  

Well, for CVS and mailing lists, we have seen that changing names is not 
something that has to be done lightly, for various reasons.

For those we have no other reasonably means other than disclaimers, I agree.

> I would be willing to compromise on #1 if it were limited to 
> the web site, however I will note that the ASF is not uniform in the 
> mechanisms for producing web sites, so either multiple build tools will 
> need to be accomodated, or the websites will have to be reworked when 
> the codebase leaves incubation.

Ahhh, maybe me was not clear. I just want the site to *appear* under 
incubator uris, not to be in incubator-site CVS. It's totally 
unreasonable that projects must use our site system for their work.

Le me try and rephrase the proposal with the above clarifications:

      1 - the projects' websites are published under

      2 - these projects have as project logo the Incubator Logo
      3 - All project sites all have as a bottom line disclaimer a note
          that they are in incubation
      4 - the CVS and mailing lists are to appear under the sponsoring
          PMC name (if it's a new project the sponsoring PMC is the
          Incubator itself)
      5 - The CVS contains a discalimer file and the mailing lists have
          the disclaimer in the footer

Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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