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From Danny Angus <>
Subject Re: Sub-project -> TLP
Date Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:47:16 GMT

Craig wrote:

>Off the top of my head ... advantages include:

IMO you missed out "Your own PMC and charter" These two things represent a
quantum difference in the management of a TLP c.f a jakarta sub-project, as
the bring with them the ability (within the restrictions of "The Apache
Way" and your charter) to define the scope and activity of the project, its
goals and procedures.

You also say:
"Overall, I suspect the lack of a stampede towards TLP-hood has more to
do with lack of knowledge of the advantages, or indifference towards
them, and possibly fear that even mature subprojects that want to
graduate will have to undergo the incubation process :-), than it does
anything else."

My experience with James was that we felt generally uncomfortable under
Jakarta, no grudges or anything like that but it seemed as if James no
longer fitted well with the de-facto web orientation of Jakarta.
Even admiting this it was still a leap into the unknown and bit of
guesswork and faith to become our own TLP.

I think Jakarta PMC or Incubator people could do a lot to encourage Jakarta
sub-projects by simply publishing a bulleted list of the steps you have to
take (yes I know, I should do it myself) and the responsibilities you have
after elevation. So that anyone who wants to consider their future can find
this out without having to declare an interest on a mailing list. The
public nature of lists and the endless mis-interpretation of motives and
personalities that goes on here often make it difficult to discuss the
general case without having people infer the specific.

It might also benefit people to hear of our (James') experience:
We had a mature sub-project, with an easily defined scope, a small commiter
base and a need to change, we wanted to have the ability to extend the
project and possibly to host sub-projects, and we wanted James to be
presented and concieved as complete and mature product.
We adopted our procedures initially from Jakarta and have only changed them
(by refrence not by value!) as far the trend towards ASF wide definitions
of common procedures has allowed.
The infrastructure changes weren't onerus, and the PMC mailing list now has
nearly zero traffic.
Interest in our project has being building, from a pretty stable level,
steadily ever since. We're now attracting the attention of people who are
first and foremost specifically interested in what we are producing and
not, as before, only those who had managed to find James lurking in
Jakarta. Several people have described James as a well kept secret, TLP
status for James means that we can address this and "build brand awareness"
amongst contributors, users and the ASF alike.


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