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From Berin Lautenbach <>
Subject Re: incubator, exit and publication
Date Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:31:29 GMT

Please do not take this the wrong way, I'm trying to be constructive :>.

One of the things that's been driving me up the wall is quite a few 
people telling me "this is the way it must be done because the bylaws 
say so".  But when I go to the bylaws, I get something much more vague - 
namely :

"Subject to the direction of the Board of Directors, the chairman of 
each Project Management Committee shall be primarily responsible for 
project(s) managed by such committee, and he or she shall establish 
rules and procedures for the day to day management of project(s) for 
which the committee is responsible."

Which reads to me that the Chair of a PMC can set the rules for 
management of projects, but that the Board can over-rule her/him.  In 
particular if I want to use my Godlike (someone elses word, not mine :>) 
powers to allow sub-projects to make their own releases then I can, 
*unless the Board says I can't*.

So... I have absolutely no problem with what you say below.  If the 
board desires the PMCs of each project to actively vote on every 
sub-project release, then that's fine by me, and it fits absolutely with 
what the bylaws state and require.  I will try to make sure it happens 
in whatever projects I am involved in.

But *please* write it down.  Give me the rules I need to play by.  It's 
been one of the frustrating things about incubation.  Everyone can tell 
others what they can and can't do, but nobody can point them to a 
document that has been voted on and ratified by the appropriate body 
that states "this is what you must do and why".

And it's the same thing for projects.  We go and put together rules and 
mission statements, and get them unanimously approved and do all the 
right things (with board members on the PMCs), but we do so with no 
"higher input" as to the minimum requirements we need to meet.

Again - I'm trying to be constructive, but comments like :

"I don't care how long some of our umbrella projects have been ignoring 
that fact"

don't help me.  If I don't know I have to do it, there's a darn good 
chance I won't do it!

And as an aside - I'm putting my money where my mouth is.  I (and a few 
others) are trying to put the policies together for incubation, and if 
it will make everyone's life easier I'll do the same for minimum PMC rules.

Apologies for the output of frustration.  Maybe such documents exist and 
I've never found them :>.


Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> Ok - going with Apache tradition - its not the PMC that makes the 
>> decision of a *release*.
> BZZZT.  According to the bylaws, the only people authorized to make 
> decisions
> on behalf of the ASF (including the decision to release code to the general
> public) are officers or the PMC responsible for the project.  All other
> votes are to be ignored or considered advisory only, and no I don't care
> how long some of our umbrella projects have been ignoring that fact.
> ....Roy
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