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From Stephen McConnell <>
Subject Re: Another cut at roles and responsibilities
Date Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:58:03 GMT

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

>>Think of this entire process as the establishment of a set of imutable
>>procedures that will protect us from the breakdown of their system.
>Things don't work that way, Stephen.  People don't.  Especially the kind of
>people who participate here.  This is not a community of bureaucrats.  As
>underspecified as the process may have been, you are engaging in vast
>overengineering.  We will do far, far better with a clear set of guidelines
>that people can understand and are willing to implement, than a legal tome.

If there is overengineering I need specific in order to address the concern.

>We have multiple parties to provide oversight, and means to correct
>problems.  The Incubator PMC, Sponsor, other members, the podling itself,
>the Community at large ... any one of them is capable of noticing and
>raising an issue to be addressed.

And aach capable of assuming that the other is undertaking the 
responsibility. Each negligent in assuring oversight, each justified in 
claiming non-culpability.  You and I have very different views here 
(which is ok).   I view the incubator as an emergent entity within 
Apache - an entity that is clearly in need of a framework, a framework that:

  (a) protect itself from itself
  (b) establishes concrete rules
  (c) establish accountability
  (d) is robust

Such a framework has to be embedded in policies and procedures.

Please consider me as the anti-christ.  If I jump in on this list and 
within a few posts manage to change proposed structural policy - all it 
means is that the policy does not exist.  I am simply manipulating the 
status quo.  Make the assumption that I am here to corrupt, to 
circumvent, to manipulate - then ask yourself the question ... "what 
framework do you have in place today to protect youself and the 
community you represent"? 

Today the incubator is for all purposes is defenseless. 

Hopefully this will change with the establishment and adoption of 
concrete set of policies and procedures.  Now make another assumption .. 
"Steve is about to enter into an incubation, and Steve does not have the 
spare-time to to deal with indecision, lack of accountability, nor 
political ineptitude, and as such Steve will go out of his way to close 
every gap and loophole to ensure that a rapid and successful exit from 
this process is all but assured".

Was that sufficiently politically correct or should I be more subtle and 
rephrase something?

Cheers, Steve.


Stephen J. McConnell

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