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From Rodent of Unusual Size <Ken.C...@Golux.Com>
Subject Re: Time to rethink incubation? [was Re: [PROPOSAL] PMC Vote to incubate Directory Project]
Date Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:34:57 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> I still believe that the Incubation PMC doesn't make any sense at all.

oh, please, let's not start another flamewar about whether it's
needed or not.  it's here; can we please just deal with it and make it
work as well as possible?

> The incubation PMC is seen by many (outsiders and insiders) as a 
> useless PITA obstacle that the ASF decided to inflict to people to 
> avoid rejecting projects alltogether.

and i'm not seeing a lot -- or even any, afaik -- of these naysayers
doing the least bit to change the situation and make things better.
i don't consider destructive criticism very useful. :-(

> Let's get back to the beginning: do we need an incubator?

please let's stop rehashing this issue.  enough people thought
so that we do.  having people who disagree keep bringing it up
is as bad as the endless reply-to wars when people don't get
their own ways.

> Is this incubation facility a project?
> No, damn. It's not. An ASF project is such when it produces code. The 
> incubator is not a project, it's a task force, a service, a committee 
> (much like the licensing, security and infrastructure committee)

wrong.  your opinion of what makes a project does not define the
term.  the conferences project, for example, produces no code but
is a project notwithstanding.  in most cases projects produce code --
but not all.

> How should this incubator work?

now we're moving into potentially constructive discussion.

> They way it works today, people, it's flawed, it's useless, 
> counterproductive and painful.

o well, so much for constructive comment. <grin/>

> The incubation oversight should be performed by the PMC that is going 
> to host that project, following the "incubation guidelines".

your opinion.

> This worked magnificently well for, jakarta and xml. 
> Why shouldn't work anymore?

no, it most emphatically did *not* work for jakarta.  otherwise we
wouldn't have had the horrible mess last year that led to the creation
of the incubator.

> Here is my proposal:
> comments?

after reading it, i find that i disagree with each and every item
in your proposal.  this is extrmely rare, since you and i are usually
in violent agreement.
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"

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