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From Berin Lautenbach <>
Subject Re: roles and responsibilities
Date Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 GMT
> From: Rodent of Unusual Size 

> >   2) isn't the incubation more an oversight group, a task force, then a 
> > project?
> you seem to be harking back to 'projects produce code'.  i disagree with
> that perspective; 'projects produce goodness for the asf' might be closer.
> in this case, the incubator would be producing good asf citizens (projects
> and communities).

But I believe the Incubator should be putting
their stamp on something as being goodness.  So
there is an element of oversite.  Doesn't mean
it's not a project though.

> >   3) shouldn't the sponsor PMC provide periodical updates on the status 
> > to the incubator?
> let's make sure we're agreed on terminology here.  so far, the terms
> 'sponsor', 'shepherd', and 'mentor' have been conflated.  my view is
> that the latter two are the same and refer to a single individual, and
> that a sponsor is either that same person or the asf project that has
> said 'the podling has a home here when it's done.'
> i am very much *not* in favour of a *pmc* fulfilling any other role than
> that.  the most significant drawback is the apathy effect and lack of
> clear delineation of responsibility.  'someone else' will handle doing
> whatever needs to be done.  no, thank you.

I *think* I agree that the PMC can't be
responsible for a particular action.  However I
do believe that a PMC/Project (not sure that it
matters which) can have overall responsibility
that is rested (by incubation requirement) on a
single individual.  I.e. the PMC/Project nominates
a person who will act on their behalf.  If that
person fails to fulfill the duty, then the
sponsoring PMC must either replace them or the
Incubator shuts down the podling.

Does that sound reasonable?

> my view is that a podling will have a single individual from the asf
> who has committed to bringing it through incubation.  this person is
> the one who nags the podling about filling out clas, doing the licence
> and copyright thing and such, and advises the podling community about
> how to adapt to the asf way of doing things (meritocracy, voting, et
> cetera).  this individual also has the responsibility of keeping the
> incubator pmc informed of progress and issues, and likewise is the
> official conduit for bringing concerns and suggestions from the incubator
> to the podling community.

I think this fits with the above idea?

> what's the role of the incubator pmc in this?  at the least, it's a set
> of passionate asf people who are essentially in agreement about what
> makes something a genuine 'apache'-style project, who review the
> reports of the mentors and make suggestions and eventually vote on
> whether the podling has become self-sustaining in the 'apache way' of
> doing things.  in a more perfect world, the pmc members will involve
> themselve more deeply than that in at least some of the podlings, so
> they can observe at first hand, possibly providing guidance at first
> hand (though preferably through the mentor).

Is it worth setting up some regular reviews of
incubating projects?  Once every three months or
the like?  If there is a requirement to review
reports, then maybe that should be formalised?

> what's the role of a 'sponsoring pmc' in this?  solely as an observer
> until the podling graduates.

Not sure I'm comfortable with this.  I'm not a
very good Apache project if all I do is site
around and observe.  If I say "I want this" then
I should have some form of responsibility (and I
agree this needs to be put in the form of an
individual) to the outcome.  Not just as an

> what's the role of a sponsoring project in this?  to help out, to whatever
> degree they severally desire, in educating their soon-to-be neighbours
> in specific details about the sponsoring project itself.

As above - I don't see the need to separate
sponsor PMC from Sponsor project in this context.

> and that's what my thoughts are at this point in time.

And mine (FWIW :>).


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