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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] PMC Vote to incubate Directory Project
Date Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:04:31 GMT

On Friday, Sep 19, 2003, at 05:21 Europe/Rome, 

> Sam Ruby <> wrote on 19/09/2003 08:42:26 AM:
>> It took repeated attemps to get Ant to "matriculate".  And significant
>> effort for Avalon.  James is the only project that I recall that did 
>> it
>> of their own initiative.
> I always wondered how Maven got out from under jakarta/turbine...

by asking.

the members came to consensus agreeing that project umbrellas are a 
pain in the ass and a PMC should be as close as possible to the code it 
develops, as to increase the ability to do proper legal oversight. 
[note: this notion is in *strong* contrast with this virtual-PMC... 
which, IMO, should be redesigned since it clearly creates more 
beaurocracy than any good]

This means that it would be almost automatic, today, for a "mature" 
project now included in some umbrella projects to "exit" and become a 
TLP... but only if they ask so.

This is how Cocoon, Avalon, James, Maven, Ant "escaped" the umbrella 
traps and went top level: they asked for it and their communities were 
considered mature enough. That was it.

Projects like Tomcat, for example, didn't ask because (from what I 
understood) they feel that "jakarta" has a marketing push and they want 
to keep it.


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