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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <>
Subject Re: Marc Fleury reacts (Fw: [JBoss-dev] July 2003 news)
Date Sat, 09 Aug 2003 23:13:36 GMT
Not so fast Danny,

There are some issues you are apparently unaware of.

I find it interesting that we would allow a JSR to be based on an ASF
project to be licenses back under a non-opensource friendly license.  I find
it interesting that we sit quietly while this JSR is run under NDA to the
severe detriment of the Jetspeed project (on which it is based).

Its even more interesting that the TCK may not be available for Jetspeed!
(Sun has chosen for this JSR to be under the JCP 2.1 process as opposed to

I was intrigued how my Microphone was cut during the "Independent look at
the Java Community Process" (formerly "Why The JCP is better than Open
Source"), when I attempted to query on this issue despite the objection of
Jason Hunter. (I have witnesses)

Its even more interesting that the ASF is allowing the "pluto.jar" to be
checked in despite the questions on its license.

I would like more information regarding the operation of the JSR-168
process; however, its under NDA.  Presumably if those privy were to talk to
me about it, as a member of the ASF, I'd probably be bound by said NDA.

So I do feel that some concerns from those who question the independence of
the ASF are justified even if they do prove to be off base and I think
you're remiss to dismiss them scornfully without studying the issue in
greater detail.  I don't/didn't want to believe it, but there is some
supporting evidence.  Granted it may be an illusion, but there is not an
overall appearance of propriety at the moment.

I have other concerns that I cannot vent publicly as well.  I do not plan to
say more on this issue.

-Andrew C. Oliver

On 8/9/03 3:24 PM, "Danny Angus" <> wrote:

>> More on how close Sun/ASF are:
> I think ASF and Sun voting the same way when the choice is Yes or No, is
> pretty poor evidenc of a conspiracy.
> What would you be saying if ASF and IBM had voted No, found a conspiracy
> where IBM and ASF were ganing up on Sun?
> Get real.
> d.
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Andrew C. Oliver
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