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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Issues with XMLBeans proposal
Date Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:58:17 GMT
On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 08:43:36AM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote, On 04/07/2003 1.24:
> >On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 04:22:10PM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> >
> >>...
> >>1. Top level project - IMHO this isn't big enough and you don't have the
> >>open source experience or robust community to pull that off (not intended 
> >>to
> >>be a criticism)
> >
> >There is no size minimum for a TLP, but I believe the Board would want to
> >see the PMC has more direct experience at the ASF. So yes, I don't see that
> >the Board would approve constructing a new PMC for this.
> As incubation goes, making a project a TLP right away is a *major* 
> problem. If it isn't already a big and stable project with knowledge of 
> Apache rules and a big sane OS community around it, I really prefer it 
> to be under another PMC that can do the "practical" part of the incubation.

Agreed. That's what I was trying to say, and my read on the board.

> At that time it made sense. Java is not only a language, and is so 
> separated from other environments, that it was IMHO the only way of 
> aggregating enough resources to launch something out of it.
> But things that go well one time (and Jakarta has been a major success), 
> don't necessarily go well the second.

You guys are misconstruing my statements. The language focus of Jakarta
creates an inherent problem in deciding where to put anything that happens
to be written in Java. There isn't anything wrong with Jakarta (other than
its size, imo), and the decision to create it in the first place was quite

And no, Jakarta is not just about "server side Java", when you look at
things like Gump, Regexp, Taglibs, etc.

> >When Grisha Trubetskoy wanted to contribute mod_python to the ASF, a good
> >number of people called for creating a 'python' TLP. 
> I'd do it when they'll donate Python itself ;-)
> Does wishful thinking work?

Believe me, I suggested that years ago. The Python Software Foundation was
started instead (Dick Hardt and I crafted the PSF bylaws based on the ASF's
bylaws). The main backers of a PSF effort thought that the ASF was still too
confusingly tied to the Apache HTTP Server (despite my protests). I think if
we asked again, today, that the answer would be that Apache stands for much
more. But the PSF has got its own momentum now, so there wouldn't be much
benefit for them to fold up and merge the Python assets into the ASF.


Greg Stein,

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