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From Pepijn Noltes <pepijnnol...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Poddling status
Date Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:24:01 GMT
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Alexander Broekhuis
<a.broekhuis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Thanks for the replies. I'll try to summarize what has been posted by now:
> - Thales is going to use Celix in a research project and is actively
> developing Celix and with Celix. Part of their development is an
> implementation of the Device Access Specification, which will be donated to
> Celix. I think this is great news!
> Pepijn: Are you willing to maintain the Device Access implementation if it
> is donated to Celix?

Yes, I am willing to maintain the Device Access implementation.

> - Use Celix as an alternative for JNI, which provides a more robust
> solution. The processes are separated, and one side crashing won't take
> down the other.
> Does anyone have a specific use case or interest in this that can be used
> as a showcase?
> - During many discussions C++ is mentioned, also seing the replies now
> again there seems to be quite a lot of interest in an OSGi implementation
> in C++.
> - There are several C++ OSGi like implementations, collaboration with these
> projects could benefit both.
> Seeing this interest in C++, I think it would be a good starting point to
> try and reach a broader community.
> The following C++ frameworks are mentioned:
> - nOSGi: http://www-vs.informatik.uni-ulm.de/proj/nosgi/
> - SOF: http://sof.tiddlyspot.com/
> - CommonTK Plugin Framework:
> http://www.commontk.org/index.php/Documentation/Plugin_Framework
> Areas where I think collaboration might be interesting are:
> * Bundling
> * Metadata
> * API (how to map the OSGi specification to C/C++)
> Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions regarding this? What would be a good
> starting point?
> Also I think it is interesting how the current Celix framework can be
> extended so that it can support C++. If possible I would like to keep a C
> only framework, with specific extensions if used with C++.
> Again, any ideas are welcome! My knowledge about C++ isn't that great, so
> any help would be appreciated.
> If I misunderstood or forgot something, feel free to correct me.
> 2012/1/11 Sascha Zelzer <s.zelzer@dkfz-heidelberg.de>
>> There is another project which I forgot to mention: nOSGi (
>> http://www-vs.informatik.uni-**ulm.de/proj/nosgi/<http://www-vs.informatik.uni-ulm.de/proj/nosgi/>)
>> It also has a very nice paper explaining their approach. Maybe we can get
>> the devopers of all these frameworks together to share their requirements,
>> ideas, visions, etc.
>> Just my two cents.
>> Thanks,
>> Sascha
>> On 01/11/2012 01:41 PM, Sascha Zelzer wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I am following the Celix efforts with interest, but I am also more
>>> interested in C++.
>>> In my opinion, Celix could try to reach out to other projects and their
>>> (probably small) community implementing a OSGi - like environment. If
>>> efforts could be concentrate, or some kind of interoperability be
>>> achieved, this would be awesome. Projects in my mind are Poco
>>> (commercial), SOF, and CTK.
>>> I tried to start some discussions about that a while ago, but
>>> unfortunately did not get any replies:
>>> http://incubator.markmail.org/**search/+list:org.apache.**
>>> incubator.celix-dev#query:**list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.**
>>> celix-dev%20from%3A%22Sascha%**20Zelzer%22+page:1+mid:**
>>> yrsceyy3ovisbhkh+state:results<http://incubator.markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.celix-dev#query:list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.celix-dev%20from%3A%22Sascha%20Zelzer%22+page:1+mid:yrsceyy3ovisbhkh+state:results>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sascha
>>> On 01/11/2012 01:32 PM, Martim wrote:
>>>> I think that the c++ point is a good one. Given celix as a universal
>>>> osgi, how language bindings enter in scene?
>>>> Other languages communities could benefit by having a osgi
>>>> implementation. Object oriented languages tend to have a community more
>>>> open to this kind of development (service oriented) than c community. As
>>>> a c++ developer I would love if I could use a good osgi implementation
>>>> with a good community support and Apache as the infrastructure provider
>>>> in my daily work (currently we are using SOF
>>>> (http://sof.tiddlyspot.com/), which is good but with almost zero
>>>> support). Python, Ruby, .net world, all that could benefit too.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Martim
>>>> Em 11/01/2012 06:04, Pepijn Noltes escreveu:
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Marcel Offermans
>>>>> <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl>    wrote:
>>>>>> On Jan 11, 2012, at 7:30 AM, Alexander Broekhuis wrote:
>>>>>>  On the incubator list a discussion is going on about slow/small
>>>>>>> poddlings
>>>>>>> and how to handle these. Celix is one of these poddlings.
>>>>>>> For Celix I see the following problems (at least):
>>>>>>> - No community growth (or not visible..)
>>>>>>> - No new committers
>>>>>>> - No releases made
>>>>>>> I think a plan is needed to see how we can move Celix towards
>>>>>>> graduation,
>>>>>>> how we can get a community, more committers etc.
>>>>>> Agreed. The Incubator PMC in particular is interested in learning
>>>>>> the community intends to address the issues that prevent a podling
>>>>>> graduating. They feel that, especially after being in the incubator
>>>>>> over a year, a graduation plan should be drafted.
>>>>> Concerning the Celix community growth, at Thales Netherlands we are
>>>>> currently working on a research project in which Celix plays a big
>>>>> part. We are exploring the opportunity to use Celix as a middleware
>>>>> solution - replacing our propertairy solution - in our Radar
>>>>> development. We strongly feel this is going to be a succes and are the
>>>>> moment busy developing the OSGi Device Access Specification in Celix.
>>>>> We are planning to send a patch in the coming weeks. Hopefully this
>>>>> helps in supporting Celix :)
>>>>>  Looking at the three items, the first two will be the most difficult,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> require the most attention. We have been working on visibility,
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the EclipseCon, ApacheCon and several other smaller local community
>>>>>>> events.
>>>>>> Again, I agree. While it is time to make a release as well, and this
>>>>>> might actually help people who want to take a look at Celix, the
main issue
>>>>>> that needs to be addressed is the size and diversity of the community.
>>>>>> At these events you mention, no doubt you have talked directly to
>>>>>> bunch of people. Could you somehow summarize their feedback?
>>>>>> What other communities can we possibly reach out to, and how?
>>>>>>  I'd like to hear what people following this list think of these
>>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>>> and how we can move towards a healthy community. What is holding
>>>>>>> back?
>>>>>>> What is needed to be able to adopt Celix? Feel free to express
>>>>>>> concern
>>>>>>> or opinion you have. Either technical, documentation etc.
>>>>>> One question I've been getting occasionally is: "does Celix also
>>>>>> with C++?".
>>>>>>   From a use case point of view, I think we could explore the scenario
>>>>>> where you have Java application that uses native code. Mostly, this
is now
>>>>>> done using JNI which has the downside that it can take the whole
JVM down
>>>>>> if something goes wrong in the native code. From a robustness point
>>>>>> view, this is unacceptable, and I think Celix can be used to provide
>>>>>> better implementation. With this use case, we can target any Java
>>>>>> that uses native libraries, which in turn might help growing our
>>>>>> Such use cases are probably interesting enough to write about on
all kinds
>>>>>> of Java sites.
>>>>> Good idea. I also think a working scenario with Celix instead of JNI
>>>>> is worth presenting to different Java user groups.
>>>>>  Greetings, Marcel
>>>>>>  Greetings,
>>>>> Pepijn
> --
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Alexander Broekhuis

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