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From Alexander Broekhuis <a.broekh...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Poddling status
Date Thu, 12 Jan 2012 10:15:02 GMT
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. I'll try to summarize what has been posted by now:

- Thales is going to use Celix in a research project and is actively
developing Celix and with Celix. Part of their development is an
implementation of the Device Access Specification, which will be donated to
Celix. I think this is great news!
Pepijn: Are you willing to maintain the Device Access implementation if it
is donated to Celix?

- Use Celix as an alternative for JNI, which provides a more robust
solution. The processes are separated, and one side crashing won't take
down the other.
Does anyone have a specific use case or interest in this that can be used
as a showcase?

- During many discussions C++ is mentioned, also seing the replies now
again there seems to be quite a lot of interest in an OSGi implementation
in C++.
- There are several C++ OSGi like implementations, collaboration with these
projects could benefit both.

Seeing this interest in C++, I think it would be a good starting point to
try and reach a broader community.

The following C++ frameworks are mentioned:
- nOSGi: http://www-vs.informatik.uni-ulm.de/proj/nosgi/
- SOF: http://sof.tiddlyspot.com/
- CommonTK Plugin Framework:

Areas where I think collaboration might be interesting are:
* Bundling
* Metadata
* API (how to map the OSGi specification to C/C++)

Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions regarding this? What would be a good
starting point?

Also I think it is interesting how the current Celix framework can be
extended so that it can support C++. If possible I would like to keep a C
only framework, with specific extensions if used with C++.

Again, any ideas are welcome! My knowledge about C++ isn't that great, so
any help would be appreciated.

If I misunderstood or forgot something, feel free to correct me.

2012/1/11 Sascha Zelzer <s.zelzer@dkfz-heidelberg.de>

> There is another project which I forgot to mention: nOSGi (
> http://www-vs.informatik.uni-**ulm.de/proj/nosgi/<http://www-vs.informatik.uni-ulm.de/proj/nosgi/>)
> It also has a very nice paper explaining their approach. Maybe we can get
> the devopers of all these frameworks together to share their requirements,
> ideas, visions, etc.
> Just my two cents.
> Thanks,
> Sascha
> On 01/11/2012 01:41 PM, Sascha Zelzer wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I am following the Celix efforts with interest, but I am also more
>> interested in C++.
>> In my opinion, Celix could try to reach out to other projects and their
>> (probably small) community implementing a OSGi - like environment. If
>> efforts could be concentrate, or some kind of interoperability be
>> achieved, this would be awesome. Projects in my mind are Poco
>> (commercial), SOF, and CTK.
>> I tried to start some discussions about that a while ago, but
>> unfortunately did not get any replies:
>> http://incubator.markmail.org/**search/+list:org.apache.**
>> incubator.celix-dev#query:**list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.**
>> celix-dev%20from%3A%22Sascha%**20Zelzer%22+page:1+mid:**
>> yrsceyy3ovisbhkh+state:results<http://incubator.markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.celix-dev#query:list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.celix-dev%20from%3A%22Sascha%20Zelzer%22+page:1+mid:yrsceyy3ovisbhkh+state:results>
>> Thanks,
>> Sascha
>> On 01/11/2012 01:32 PM, Martim wrote:
>>> I think that the c++ point is a good one. Given celix as a universal
>>> osgi, how language bindings enter in scene?
>>> Other languages communities could benefit by having a osgi
>>> implementation. Object oriented languages tend to have a community more
>>> open to this kind of development (service oriented) than c community. As
>>> a c++ developer I would love if I could use a good osgi implementation
>>> with a good community support and Apache as the infrastructure provider
>>> in my daily work (currently we are using SOF
>>> (http://sof.tiddlyspot.com/), which is good but with almost zero
>>> support). Python, Ruby, .net world, all that could benefit too.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Martim
>>> Em 11/01/2012 06:04, Pepijn Noltes escreveu:
>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Marcel Offermans
>>>> <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl>    wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 11, 2012, at 7:30 AM, Alexander Broekhuis wrote:
>>>>>  On the incubator list a discussion is going on about slow/small
>>>>>> poddlings
>>>>>> and how to handle these. Celix is one of these poddlings.
>>>>>> For Celix I see the following problems (at least):
>>>>>> - No community growth (or not visible..)
>>>>>> - No new committers
>>>>>> - No releases made
>>>>>> I think a plan is needed to see how we can move Celix towards
>>>>>> graduation,
>>>>>> how we can get a community, more committers etc.
>>>>> Agreed. The Incubator PMC in particular is interested in learning how
>>>>> the community intends to address the issues that prevent a podling from
>>>>> graduating. They feel that, especially after being in the incubator for
>>>>> over a year, a graduation plan should be drafted.
>>>> Concerning the Celix community growth, at Thales Netherlands we are
>>>> currently working on a research project in which Celix plays a big
>>>> part. We are exploring the opportunity to use Celix as a middleware
>>>> solution - replacing our propertairy solution - in our Radar
>>>> development. We strongly feel this is going to be a succes and are the
>>>> moment busy developing the OSGi Device Access Specification in Celix.
>>>> We are planning to send a patch in the coming weeks. Hopefully this
>>>> helps in supporting Celix :)
>>>>  Looking at the three items, the first two will be the most difficult,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> require the most attention. We have been working on visibility, going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the EclipseCon, ApacheCon and several other smaller local community
>>>>>> events.
>>>>> Again, I agree. While it is time to make a release as well, and this
>>>>> might actually help people who want to take a look at Celix, the main
>>>>> that needs to be addressed is the size and diversity of the community.
>>>>> At these events you mention, no doubt you have talked directly to a
>>>>> bunch of people. Could you somehow summarize their feedback?
>>>>> What other communities can we possibly reach out to, and how?
>>>>>  I'd like to hear what people following this list think of these
>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>> and how we can move towards a healthy community. What is holding
>>>>>> back?
>>>>>> What is needed to be able to adopt Celix? Feel free to express any
>>>>>> concern
>>>>>> or opinion you have. Either technical, documentation etc.
>>>>> One question I've been getting occasionally is: "does Celix also work
>>>>> with C++?".
>>>>>   From a use case point of view, I think we could explore the scenario
>>>>> where you have Java application that uses native code. Mostly, this is
>>>>> done using JNI which has the downside that it can take the whole JVM
>>>>> if something goes wrong in the native code. From a robustness point of
>>>>> view, this is unacceptable, and I think Celix can be used to provide
>>>>> better implementation. With this use case, we can target any Java project
>>>>> that uses native libraries, which in turn might help growing our community.
>>>>> Such use cases are probably interesting enough to write about on all
>>>>> of Java sites.
>>>> Good idea. I also think a working scenario with Celix instead of JNI
>>>> is worth presenting to different Java user groups.
>>>>  Greetings, Marcel
>>>>>  Greetings,
>>>> Pepijn

Met vriendelijke groet,

Alexander Broekhuis

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