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From James Fuller <>
Subject Re: a few questions (sorry quite long)
Date Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:58:52 GMT
Steve Loughran wrote:

> James Fuller wrote:
>> btw I have a few general developer questions... before I start caning 
>> bugzilla I think any responses would be well appreciated;
really appreciate the time you have taken to answer.....even where you 
have confirmed simply lets me know if something is considered optional, 
must do, or a bit of cruft in the source.

> This makes some sense, apart from the schema bit at the bottom. 
> Schema? We dont need no schema :)

schema can be an opt in, admittedly writing a schema would give hints to 
editors out using NRL (namespace routing language) we can 
allow authors to use whatever schema lang they prefer (my own choice is 
RELAXNG). Also through namespace declaration we can let authors use 
whatever markup they choose for descriptive blocks (xhtml, etc).

> Actually I like the suggestion to an extent - code is often the wrong 
> place to put metadata. But as most of the attributes of a task can be 
> determined through introspection, i think xdoclet does have something 
> to say.
> One thing we need to be able to describe is the situation when one of 
> a set of attributes is needed. required being true/false is not enough.

...I think presenting a commenting style guide + task markup is 
something useful...will work on something in the short term.

>> - getlibraries has no task definition that I can see....correct me if 
>> I am wrong
> <libraries>

yes, was looking for manual description of the task.

>> - is there a list of @ant.task category types anywhere ?
> nope

usage optional then

>> - is abstractaccess optional task @ant.task category the right way to 
>> use this doc tag? also any list of ant.task category anywhere ?
> nope. remember the @ant tasks were a quick draft in 2002; we dont need 
> to stick to them.

usage optional, thx for clearing up

>> - couldnt find any logging/listener tests under testcases ?

>> - the status and intended purpose ?
> Looks like it is intended to be a central repository of magic properties.

from this answer I will assume its status is open, and its use optional

>> - any update on webdav task
> We arent doing one.

ok, this looks like a nice first submission for me then.

> We cant move things. If you move stuff, you have to leave a facade 
> class there. Why? Because we dont know who has subclassed or reused a 
> class. A lot of people use ant programatically as well as in the XML 
> layer, and we need to keep the  effective API as stable as the XML 
> language. This is precisely why we are

agree, but there are a few techniques instead of just putting facade 
classes...I agree with the statement you make later about backwards 

> Launcher is special; it is its own JAR file, and has to locate and 
> launch ant proper. it must be 100% self-contained.

ok, thought this was the case.

>> Why  not move ?
>> -main/org/apache/tools/bzip
>> -main/org/apache/tools/bzip2
>> -main/org/apache/tools/mail
>> -main/org/apache/tools/tar
>> -main/org/apache/tools/zip
>> excuse my ignorance here (well if u never ask questions...)....are 
>> these are packages used by other apache projects
> I think they did come from other projects, and are designed for reuse 
> outside ant.

was wondering if there is a more appropriate apache project for these* packages....

>> - why are these tests at toplevel ?
>> testcases/org/apache/tools/mail
>> testcases/org/apache/tools/tar
>> testcases/org/apache/tools/zip
> maybe because the things they test are at that level.

hehe, this is linked to why we have such top level packages...once again 

> yes, there is lot of historical stuff. Eventually we will be crushed 
> by the weight of backwards compatiblity.
> I have just updated the ant_task_guidelines doc in the repository, 
> please take a look at this and see if it clarifies things.

thx for taking the time to answer such tiresome questions....

cheers, Jim Fuller

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