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From Bruce Atherton <>
Subject Re: Hosting new Ant2 repository with SubVersion!?!?
Date Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:23:42 GMT
At 03:10 PM 7/23/2002 -0500, Karl Fogel wrote:

>I think someone *did* submit an Ant task at one point; I'm not sure
>what came of that.  I'll ping the list again, but first will wait for
>answer to the above question, so I don't make nonsense on the list

Hi Karl.

No, not an Ant task. I submitted an Ant build script for Subversion, one 
which automates the procedure documented in Subversion's INSTALL file of 
getting Subversion built. It got lost in a sea of patches to Subversion, 
though, and was never committed. I am reworking it now that both Ant 1.5 
and Subversion Alpha have been released. Karl, you can expect it to be 
resubmitted to Subversion in the next week or two.

As for Ant as a kind of make, it is really something that has a higher 
level view of the world than make does. I actually used Subversion's make 
system to do the heavy lifting in the Ant script. Consider the things 
Subversion's INSTALL file tells you to do: download (or checkout) apr, 
apr-util, neon, and optionally bdb and httpd2. Install in these locations. 
Run autogen, configure, make, make test, make install for each package with 
these options. My Ant build script did all of these things with a single 
command. The only thing it couldn't do is bootstrap Subversion because, the 
last time I checked, there was no single URL I could get the tarball from. 
Sure, you could write a makefile that did all these same things, but no one 
ever does. make is just a lower level tool.

The reason I haven't written an Ant task for Subversion yet is due to my 
inability to decide the right way to do it:

   a) Use the svn client directly. That would be simplest but requires svn 
to have been installed previously. Making that assumption about cvs is 
reasonable, about svn less so.

   b) Use the SWIG bindings to Java. This is the way it is supposed to be 
done (at least according to Greg Stein), but quite apart from the recent 
volatility (and volatility still to come) in the client-side libraries 
APIs, there are deployment issues in releasing an Ant task that depends on 
a JNI-based JAR file. I think that each user would still have to have svn 
built locally so that the JNI bindings were available. This seems 
problematic to me in making it part of the core Ant tasks.

   c) Use the Jakarta-Slide code as a WebDAV/DeltaV equivalent to Neon and 
create an all Java Subversion client, mimicking the C codes' layers. That 
isn't going to happen any time soon, I don't think, and would introduce 
synchronization issues so that working copies could be used by any client. 
Even hidden things like the working copy logs should be identical in the 
Java version so that commands like "svn cleanup" would work after, for 
example, an Ant task died during a working copy transaction.

I will probably implement a solution based on "a" for a quick fix (unless 
someone else creates a Subversion task), but I'm still trying to figure out 
how "b" could be done easily. Long term I much prefer c. Has anybody else 
here done any work on a Subversion Ant task?

As to the topic at hand, I think that talk of moving Ant to a Subversion 
repository is premature when we don't even support a task for it yet. Let's 
wait until we have a task and 1.0 is released (not long now, right Karl?) 
and clients have started filtering out into the IDEs of the world.

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