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From (Kevin A. Burton)
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] 'redefine' task that uses JDK 1.4/JPDA class redefinition
Date Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:02:25 GMT
Hash: SHA1

Peter Donald <> writes:

> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:46, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > OK.
> >
> > Has anyone read about the JPDA 1.4 enhancements that have made it into JDK
> > 1.4:
> ...
> > Developers could have compile, redefine, and test (with cactus or RPC style
> > code) within seconds without having to wait for their ENTIRE application
> > reload.  Application server admins will be able to redefine necessary code
> > without having to restart their application (think availability).
> >
> > Thought?
> Sounds interesting. There is actually JSRs in progress that will address this
> and specifically allow much cleaner and faster compartmentalization/isolation
> (which leads to faster startup times and ability to almost instantly redeploy
> apps if the different parts are isolated. However this will not be in place
> before JDK1.5 so this could be useful in some areas I expect.

It also seems like this might be overkill.  What I would actually like to see is
an improvement to JPDA.

At the very minimum the ability to define new methods but also the ability to
look at a hashcode or lastModified of classes in the target VM so that you can
do differential updating.

> > I think this is a good idea.  Of course I will contribute this to Apache if
> > it is requested.
> >
> > The only other drawback is that this will require JDK 1.4 to compile.  It
> > might be a good idea to put this under a CONTRIB directory.
> We can keep it in the optional hierarchy as not all of that is all compiled
> and we can have conditional compilation there. Though it may be an idea to
> keep it on separate project so you can release it on a faster cycle than ant
> does releases so you can tune it faster then again - maybe not ! ;)

Yeah... this is actually a good idea.  One of the things I don't like about the
ASF is that chaos needs to be harnessed a little better.

... can ant have sub projects?   The redefine task is somewhat complicated,
should be released under its own schedule, has a number of TODO items
associated with it, should have its own documentation, etc.

Would be a shame to hide it in an optional package.

> The big mistake that men make is that when they turn thirteen or fourteen and
> all of a sudden they've reached puberty, they believe that they like women.
> Actually, you're just horny. It doesn't mean you like women any more at
> twenty-one than you did at ten.  --Jules Feiffer (cartoonist)

ha... I didn't realize this was your .sig... I started reading it and that
"what the hell is he talking about"  :)


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Kevin A. Burton (,, )
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