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From Peter Donald <>
Subject Re: [DISC] XML issues
Date Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:44:55 GMT
At 08:48  9/4/01 -0700, David Rees wrote:
>On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:10:57 +1000, Peter Donald wrote:
>>At 02:00  3/4/01 +0200, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>>>Peter Donald <> wrote:
>>>> However it is at higher complexity build files (medium->high
>>>> complexity) where the advantage would be shown. Mainly as it would
>>>> allow core to be clean and handling of tasks predictable. For big
>>>> build processes it would allow customisation without magic variables
>>>> (ala GUMPs sysclasspath) and added value (ie assign fee: namespace
>>>> to something specific to buisness).
>>>So you propose namespaces to make the "aspect" system pluggable, am I
>>>getting this right?  You want a facility to say "I'll take
>>>responsibility of all task attributes int the baz namespace"?
>I think the "simpler" alternative of introducing a context object with
>sub-elements should also be kept for consideration. I think it would
>easier for many to understand. Then taking control of logging is as
>simple as replacing the logging object. It also moves the
>logging/failure attributes out of Task, which I think is the right
>thing to do.
>In terms of big build processes you could have a set of named contexts
>defined to plug in and out.

I am not sure why you think such a system would be simpler. Aspect based
systems are meant to be used to give fine grain separation of concerns. How
the  aspects are handled (ie Facilities in my terminology) is not set. In
essence what you propose is to reclump all aspects into one again and then
swap out facilities at runtime (ie essentially what Ant1 does with it's
magic properties/loggers).

This of course fails to provide for large projects who want need the extra
flexibility to do their own thing. It also doesn't add anything on an
aspect based system because we could always directly configure facilities
to provide appropriate fgeatures (ie special ClassLoaderFacility for GUMP
builds, BlameFacility for Alexandria, DocFacility for AntDoc etc).

So I can't see how it is simpler or more useful for the **users** (though
it would be simpler for us Ant developers).



| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."                   |
|              - John Kenneth Galbraith               |

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