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From Roger Vaughn <rogervau...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: The RIGHT Direction for ANT
Date Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:07:05 GMT
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion on XSLT.
 I really do have to wonder what you saw that turned
you off so completely, though - in basic use it is
*very* simple.

I would be interested in seeing what you had to script
that couldn't be accomplished in vanilla Ant.  So far
I have only run into this doing things that Ant wasn't
intended for - like C compiles.  I wouldn't call me
"powers that be", though - I'm just another
occasionally contributing, usually opinionated user
myself.  :-)

--- Jason Rosenberg <jason@squaretrade.com> wrote:
> 
> > At 12:39  11/1/01 +1100, Conor MacNeill wrote:
> > >>
> > >> So far your the only one who believes it is
> misguided. You are also the
> > >> most ignorant and have the least experience
> with Ant and other build
> > >> processes - is this telling you something ? ;)
> If you want to add
> > >> procedural elements feel free to. I doubt you
> will get CVS space here -
> > >> mainly as it is a different project from Ant -
> but sourceforge.org will
> > >> host it. I think you will find that most of
> these elements will be rarely
> > >> useful outside small builds thou.
> > >>
> > >
> > >Hmmm. Pete, I'm not really happy about this
> response. 
> > 
> > sorry ;)
> > 
> > >Whilst I usually
> > >don't agree with Jason's point of view, I would
> defend his right to express
> > >it here. Let us make the arguments, discuss the
> points, etc, but please
> > >let's keep ant-dev friendly. 
> > 
> > It wasn't meant to be unfriendly - quite the
> opposite in fact ;)
> > 
> > >Sourceforging people isn't the way to go, IMHO.
> > 
> > Nope - but I doubts it is going to happen with so
> many people against it.
> > So it is more a practical thing - if he wants then
> do it - actions speaks
> > louder than words - maybe the arguments will have
> more effect once backed
> > up with implementation. I am not saying go away -
> I know people who would
> > love to use the procedural parts he comes up with.
> However whats the point
> > of encouraging what I see as a dead end ? ;) I
> think he will end up tired
> > from arguing with us and thus end up not doing
> anything. This would be a
> > shame.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Pete
> > 
> 
> Please don't worry about my feelings here, all, I'm
> not overly sensitive,
> or anything.
> 
> It is important to answer a few of Pete's
> criticisms, though.  First,
> I have a huge amount of experience in working with
> C/C++ software
> projects, and with using Make, etc.  Pete seems to
> saying that,
> since I don't agree with him, I must not have much
> experience, or
> anyting.
> 
> It is true, I have come relatively recently to the
> world of Ant and Java.
> It is obvious, a priori, that Make would not be
> appropriate, for Java.
> I think we can all agree on that.
> 
> Ant is the only build tool I know of so far that
> really is intended to
> be for Java applications.  Are there any others that
> I should
> be looking into?
> 
> Now, I have managed, kicking and screaming, to
> accomplish what
> I need using the basic features of Ant1.2, and my
> builds are on
> the right track.  The reality remains that I have
> accomplished this
> by doing things in a way that is not really the
> intended Ant model.
> 
> It is all now mostly based on javascript, which
> calls directly into
> the ant java classes to execute tasks.  I do things
> like make direct
> calls into the get/setUserProperty method, which is
> inaccessible
> from the Ant XML language.  I have also made heavy
> usage
> of module based property files, which describe the
> local
> classpath and dependency issues for each module,
> which
> then get loaded in via javascript reusable
> templates.
> 
> Dependency checking is done by simple tracking of
> modules
> that have already been visited at run-time, so I
> don't have 
> any of the issues related to trying to pre-compute a
> DAG
> for the entire build where paramaterized templates
> are being
> used.
> 
> So, I have successfully leveraged what's good about
> Ant.  That is
> it builds java well, in a platform independent way. 
> And, it does
> provide scripting, via the <script> tag.
> 
> So, in summary, it works, I would have preferred not
> to have
> gone the route I did, I think the powers that be on
> the Ant
> project are trying to win the Nobel prize instead of
> build
> something that works, and I look forward to Ant2,
> which
> should address at least some of my concerns.
> 
> XSLT sucks, by the way.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
>
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