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From Ross Gardler <Ross.Gard...@microsoft.com>
Subject RE: Ripple to be retired from the incubator?
Date Mon, 23 Nov 2015 03:13:52 GMT
I've already checked the expectation with trademarks@ in anticipation for this question. Normally
assignment of trademarks happens upon graduation and it seems, from a cursory check, that
this is the case for Ripple. In other words you need the permission of RIM/Blackberry Ltd
as the owners of the mark (I'm not sure what the legal status is there).

Whoever wants to "own" the project moving forwards need to make a formal request. First to
trademarks@apache.org to check the ASF doesn't actually own it and then to RIM/Blackberry.

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Barham [mailto:Tim.Barham@microsoft.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 4:59 PM
To: dev@ripple.incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Ripple to be retired from the incubator?

+1 from me also.

Also, in addition to Parashu's questions, how do we go about getting approval to keep the
Ripple name?

-----Original Message-----
From: Parashuram N [mailto:panarasi@microsoft.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:27 AM
To: dev@ripple.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Ripple to be retired from the incubator?

+1 to retiring it and moving to Github. What would be the process of retiring it, and what
is the timeframe that we are looking at ? 




On 11/17/15, 9:03 AM, "Raymond Camden" <raymondcamden@gmail.com> wrote:

>+1 for retiring and moving it to GitHub.
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Christian Grobmeier <cg@grobmeier.de> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> from my observations over the long time I was mentoring this project 
>> I can say it was always an up and down. People wanted to progress, 
>> but it never happened as day jobs prevented it. I think around the 
>> time Chrome introduced some tooling in that direction (even when its 
>> missing advanced mobile features) interest decreased even more.
>>
>> Today I see not much activity.
>>
>> Personally I think a project like Ripple does not have a chance to 
>> build a vibrant community here. GitHub might be a better place, as 
>> there are no formalities involved.
>>
>> I am +1 for retiring the project.
>>
>> I am bit sad about this, as I always hoped the ASF would become a bit 
>> less Java centric, also bringing its benefits to other environments.
>> Unfortunately I have not seen many successful web related projects 
>> (ignoring Cordova a little).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> --
>>   Christian Grobmeier
>>   https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.grobmeier.de&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c9874214c8d9745aaf6ee08d2ef7114e8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=QnkKuyVwZ%2fLBX7ZPypAzLlvIwaLZOFbnCZJF9qnXQJE%3d
>>   
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.t
>> imeandbill.de&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c9874214c8d974
>> 5aaf6ee08d2ef7114e8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=7kBT
>> SXX1Lp5%2fFXs%2fuCX9%2bZlOZOEKzJolOUjcNtZtJN0%3d
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015, at 00:50, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>> Retiring it means the code is not being managed and thus there are 
>>> no changes to it in the ASF.
>>>
>>> People can fork the code and take it elsewhere, but not necessarily 
>>> using the name Ripple - approval would be required to take the name. 
>>> Under no circumstances would the name Apache Ripple be permitted.
>>>
>>> A project cannot stay in the incubator forever. Either there is an 
>>> active community around it (or work towards an active community) or 
>>> it will be retired from the incubator. There is activity on the 
>>> code, but there is no oversight on the health of the project and 
>>> thus no real potential for community growth. At this point the 
>>> community is not large enough to must the required oversight and thus cannot
graduate.
>>>
>>> The existing community therefore need to evaluate whether Apache is 
>>> the right place for them. If the only goal is to fix bugs then I 
>>> would suggest it may not be an appropriate home.
>>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Parashuram N [mailto:panarasi@microsoft.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 3:28 PM
>>> To: dev@ripple.incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: RE: Ripple to be retired from the incubator?
>>>
>>> Hi Ross,
>>>
>>> Thanks for bringing this up. I wanted to understand the implication 
>>> of retiring a project, vs graduating it.
>>> Does retiring a project also mean that we cannot change the code, 
>>> add bug fixes, etc ? While you are right that there may be no big 
>>> features planned and that Ripple is largely complete for its use 
>>> case, does retiring mean that we cannot fix bugs ?
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 11:38 AM
>>> To: dev@ripple.incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Ripple to be retired from the incubator?
>>>
>>> (BCC private@IPMC as I am speaking as an IPMC member but will follow 
>>> up on the Ripple dev list as is appropriate)
>>>
>>> Hello Ripplers, please note the '?' in the subject. I just wanted to 
>>> ensure I got the attention of PPMC members because the IPMC is 
>>> asking this question and PPMC members need to respond.
>>>
>>> In February I stepped up to help the very small Ripple community get 
>>> a release out in response to the IPMC wondering whether the project 
>>> had the legs to graduate. With my offer to help the IPMC agreed to 
>>> give the podling time (6 months) before reviewing again. We are now 
>>> at 10 months from that date.
>>>
>>> Some great work by the Ripple team resulted in a few releases 
>>> (including that all important first release with the fine tuning 
>>> that is initially so time consuming). In addition a couple of new committers
were added.
>>> Today there is a slow trickle of work going on in JIRA and the codebase.
>>> By my assessment the PPMC is in a reasonable shape, though it is not 
>>> large enough to graduate. But there is no obvious community action, i.e.
>>> no visible interaction between contributors on the future of Ripple 
>>> and this no place for newcomers to engage.
>>>
>>> I recognize that the project is small and largely "complete" with 
>>> respect to its current use cases. It looks to be in maintenance 
>>> mode. This is not necessarily a problem. All we are looking for is a 
>>> community that is welcoming to newcomers. But it must also have 
>>> appropriate oversight from at least 3 active PPMC members (otherwise 
>>> it can't get a release out the door). I don't see that this will 
>>> change unless the existing PPMC actively seek to do so.
>>>
>>> Since Ripple is now 4 months overdue on its IPMC reports the IPMC is 
>>> once again wondering what is going on in the land of Ripple.
>>>
>>> Two things *must* happen:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1)      A discussion, on the public dev list, with respect to the health
>>> of the Ripple project. This can take one of two angles, depending on 
>>> the needs of the active PPMC members here. It can be a proposal to 
>>> retire the project from the Incubator on the grounds that it will 
>>> not be able to muster enough interest to graduate, or it can be a 
>>> discussion on the short to medium term future of the project, along 
>>> with a plan to grow the PPMC to a suitable size to allow graduation. 
>>> If the second option is taken the goal should be to demonstrate 
>>> activity with the project with the explicit intention of drawing out 
>>> any interested lurkers on the mailing list. Only the PPMC members 
>>> can make the call as to which is the right approach.
>>>
>>> 2)      An IPMC report must be submitted describing the state of the
>>> project and highlighting the action taken in 1) along with a 
>>> timeframe before the project should be re-evaluated by the IPMC.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ross
>>>
>
>
>
>--
>=======================================================================
>==== Raymond Camden, Developer Advocate for MobileFirst at IBM
>
>Email : raymondcamden@gmail.com
>Blog : 
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.raymondcamden.co
>m&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c9874214c8d9745aaf6ee08d2ef7
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>Twitter: raymondcamden
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