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From "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <>
Subject RE: Moving towards ripple 2.0
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2014 00:59:21 GMT
Thanks for this Ali. 

Given that the Ripple community is not a vibrant one at this point your engagement like this
is good. We need to ensure that any lurkers feel included (which you are doing well) whilst
also ensuring that you can proceed as planned (assuming no objections from the community that
is active).

In order to ensure your proposal is considered fully and you are able to proceed, it might
be worth you reading about the concept of Lazy Consensus in ASF projects - very valuable in
situations like this and it should describe how to move forwards with your proposal -


Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc.
A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation

-----Original Message-----
From: Ali Satter [] 
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:28 PM
Cc:; Ryan J. Salva
Subject: RE: Moving towards ripple 2.0

Thank you Julian for the summary.  The gist of the proposal is take the core of Ripple and
split it up to support the various scenarios the community has been discussing.  Please take
a look at the high level proposal and share your thoughts.



From: Horn, Julian C []
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: Moving towards ripple 2.0

I see the mail daemon stripped out my attachment.  I tried pasting the foils into the mail,
but it was too big.  Here are the foils in outline mode.

Cordova-browser compared to Ripple
*       Julian Horn
*       November 19, 2014

*       Both "ripple as a platform" and the "cordova browser" platform leverage the Cordova
CLI to prepare sources for execution on host
-      Cordova prepare browser => run in browser
-      Cordova prepare ripple => run in Ripple (in browser)
*       Device layout emulation either comes from the browser's dev tools "emulation" feature
or from Ripple
*       In both cases, the program under test runs in the host system's web runtime, so faithfulness
to on-device experience is limited

Deeper Differences
*       Cordova-browser is a deployment platform, like other cordova platforms
*       Ripple is a diagnostic platform whose goal is to approximate the feeling of running
on device as a packaged app
-      (With the big caveat that you're running in the host system web runtime)
*       Ripple supplies extensible GUI framework that allows plugin emulation logic to interact
with user
-      Browser dev tools UI is not extensible in this way

Example: Cordova Camera API
*       Browser platform implementation uses a non-standard API, getUserMedia, to access the
-      If browser doesn't support getUserMedia or host has no camera => error
*       Logic: reproduce feeling of running in host system browser (or failing if it can't
*       Ripple platform implementation tries to bridge the gap between host (think desktop
PC) and target (think phone)
*       Logic: exercise camera-based app on host, even if that app is not intended to run
on a desktop environment

Levels of Support
*       Emulation of camera API can work at several levels:
-      Always return "canned" data from fixed files (no user interaction)
-      Use host system camera if present, else fixed files (no user interaction)
-      Let user decide what should happen (user interaction)
*       Best choice probably depends on what the app does

Ripple platform can Reuse Browser platform
*       Ripple implementation can delegate to browser implementation when requested ("use
host system camera") or when ripple has no implementation of its own
-      Some Ripple API emulations already delegate to a host system API
-      Example: emulation for Cordova File API delegates to Filesystem API
-      Note that this can be problematic:

Last foil had this image:

From: Horn, Julian C []
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Moving towards ripple 2.0

As people may know, we at Intel have been hosting a series of meetings to discuss the future
of Ripple, and to explore various ways to collaborate on Ripple development.  As ideas become
a little clearer we share the progress on this mailing list.  People may remember, for example,
my posts on the subject "Summarizing thoughts on cordova-browser vs Ripple", and "Ripple prototype
that pulls in emulation code from plugins" which derive from these discussions.

We had another meeting on Wednesday, November 19, and I would like to share what was discussed
for people who are curious or could not attend.  As it happened, we conflicted with the Chrome
dev summit.

I have attached a PDF form of some foils I presented to frame the discussion about cordova-browser
versus Ripple.  To summarize briefly, our position is that Ripple is not redundant with cordova-browser.
 The foils describe a concrete example illustrating that difference in emphasis and the points
of overlap.  We definitely see value going forwards with Ripple-like emulation. I am happy
to say that there was agreement on this point among the people who attended.

The meeting then moved to a discussion of how Ripple might evolve going forwards.  I'm not
really the best person to summarize this part of the discussion, as most of these ideas were
described in foils presented by our friends from Microsoft.  I expect them to share their
foils with this list soon.  They intend to flesh things out to provide more context and hopefully
a walk-through example.  We can then have more public discussion to get everyone's feedback.

That being said, I will give you a quick teaser.

The vision here is that the Ripple client would be split into two processes. One process,
called the "simulation process" contains the program under test and various kinds of emulation
infrastructure, but no emulator UI.  This more or less corresponds to the inner frame in Ripple.
The other process, called the "simulation host" contains the emulator UI.  This could either
run stand-alone as the Ripple client does or be embedded in an IDE. Emulator UI widgets (think
Ripple "panel") and supporting code can be extracted from included plugins and incorporated
into a simulation host, in a manner similar to the Ripple prototype I described in earlier

Ripple 2.0 thus becomes the reference implementation of a simulation host, but anyone is free
to develop their own simulation host.  Code in plugins, both emulation code and cordova-browser
code, is shared across simulation hosts.  This should be a big improvement over the current
situation, where there has been little sharing among the various Ripple derivatives that exist.

I should stop here and let the authors present the details of their plan before commenting


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