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From Santiago Gala <sg...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] J2 Bulid: Ant vs. Maven
Date Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:16:17 GMT
El lun, 20-02-2006 a las 23:40 -0500, David Jencks escribió:
> +1 maven2
> 
> I believe many of the problems encountered in the m2 conversion are  
> likely to be due to bad project structure or abuse of maven1  
> features.  I've pretty much always found that when something is hard  

It might as well be. Maven documentation has always been nil, while ant
has a more familiar, "make-like", process.

> in maven it means there's a better way to set up the project.  I  
> think there are enormous problems in j2 with excess uncontrolled  
> external dependencies and I think these problems, difficult to deal  

I'd rather say that the main problem in jetspeed is not of external
dependencies, but of *internal* ones. Jetspeed external dependencies do
change slowly, and don't usually impact the build. Inter-module
dependencies, on the other hand, are difficult to handle correctly,
specially as we have not separate versioning for them.


> with in maven, will become completely untractable  in ant.   I would  
> prefer to spend some time working on the m2 build so it works  
> reliably.  I'm really unlikely to spend any time on any structural  
> improvements if there is an ant build.
> 

We are stuck in maven like two years, and only Ate, David, Randy, ...
have actually contributed to the build mechanisms. So I'd actually
respect any decision they take. Specially since I don't really
understand maven 1 or 2.

> I hope this does not appear too negative but I feel really strongly  
> about this.
> 

Cool, we need some discussion.

> thanks
> david jencks
> 
> 

Regards
Santiago

> 
> On Feb 20, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Randy Watler wrote:
> 
> > All,
> >
> > We now have a marginal Maven2 build that is capable of building J2 and
> > installing on Tomcat. While it has been fun reinventing the wheel for
> > the Nth time, it is time to get serious about the J2 build. Here  
> > are the
> > options:
> >
> > 1. Continue on with Maven1/J2 plugin.
> > 2. Step up and complete the Maven2 build and create an archetype to
> > replace the genapp capabilities.
> > 3. Ditch maven and go with Ant.
> >
> > We need to vote on this before I or anyone else puts more sunk time  
> > into
> > the build. Here are some of the issues:
> >
> > 1. Ant is simple and everyone understands it.
> > 2. Maven1 and the plugin are not stable and are generally complex.
> > 3. Maven2 has simplified things in some ways, but made them more  
> > complex
> > in other ways with the pom.xml inheritance and transitive  
> > dependencies.
> > 4. Ant build.xml files can become unmanageable.
> > 5. Maven2 may not be sufficiently mature for our use; we have
> > encountered several bugs and have used some ugly workarounds for even
> > our simple build cases handled to date.
> > 6. J2 users have not been exposed to maven, and it can become a
> > liability quickly since they expect Ant like builds.
> > 7. All IDEs, including Eclipse, can natively build Ant based projects.
> > 8. When the BSR or other repos are down, the Maven offline builds are
> > hopeless.
> > 9. The training/learning curve with maven is hurting acceptance of the
> > J2 portal solution.
> > 10. The repository in Maven2 will become even more difficult to manage
> > with the transitive dependencies: in the end, we will be forced to
> > manage our own repository and all of the J2 users will need to do the
> > same.
> >
> > I am sure there are more... this is not exactly a new topic for any of
> > us. We are just at the point where we need to make a final decision  
> > that
> > can stand the test of time... J2 needs our cycles, not the build
> > environment. I am willing to put more time into the build no matter
> > which way we choose to go... but not unless there is a consensus on  
> > the
> > matter.
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: jetspeed-dev-help@portals.apache.org
> >
> 
> 
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> 
-- 
VP and Chair, Apache Portals (http://portals.apache.org)
Apache Software Foundation

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