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From "David H. DeWolf" <ddew...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Reorganizing Jetspeed repository (Was Re: Some mean-spirited whining about the build...)
Date Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:50:05 GMT


Raphaƫl Luta wrote:

>>>
>>>Before a full blown proposal suitable for a vote I think there are quite
>>>a few detaiuls to work out, like:
>>>- making sure the svn:externals actually work as expected in the ASF
>>>setup
>>>- which mailing list(s) gets commits messages for the various directories
>>
>>
>>My gut says the general list.
>>
> 
> 
> I'm not sure, general is meant for healthy discussion on global Portals
> not commit reviews :)
> If the goal is to broaden the participation of the whole Portals
> developer tto these various components, I'd then rather have a
> commits@portals.apache.org that gets commit messages from *all* the
> /portals sub-directories instead of the current jetspeed-dev,
> bridges-commits and pluto-scm.
> 
> That would make a lot of sense to me and could be a baby step towards
> more cooperation between the different sub-projects.

Ok, I agree!
> 
> 
>>>- getting some input from other stakeholders like Pluto guys or Cocoon
>>>portal guys (possibly Geronimo) about the optimal directory breakdown
>>
>>I think it will help spur cooperation between the groups . . .
>>
> 
> 
> yeah, but where would Pluto fit in such an organisation, after all with
> 1.1, it's also a Spring component based application, no ?
> Maybe it would make sense to reorg Pluto at the same time.

Yes, definately.  I've I don't have my hands 100% around what pluto can 
leverage, but I definately think that there's overlap to be gotten rid of.

> 
> 
>>>- figure out a build system that actually works on such a beast
>>
>>
>>Yes, this is a big consideration if we move everything at once.  I
>>wonder if a better approach is to start with just one of the items (I'd
>>recomend applications).  That seems like a baby step in the right
>>direction.
>>
> 
> 
> Even if we don't move everything at once, I'm not comfortable enough
> with svn:externals to be sure that there are no side-effects to such a move.
> 

Fair enough.

> I'm all for incremental change instead of big bang, I'd just like to
> know for a fact that the end goal is actually realistic and that we're
> not going to land too roughly. Reorg/build change is disruptive so we
> should aim for a stable situation that suits everyone as soon as possible.
> 
> I think I'll go and ask for help on the infra@ list. Some people
> probably have experiences on svn:extrenals on a ASF-like repository
> structure.


I remember discussions about this on the struts mailing lists a while 
back.  I believe that the struts-chain branch uses (or used) them.  A 
quick google on "apache svn:externals" indicates that maven, and struts 
use them and cocoon had a discussion about it.  I wonder if any of the 
cocoon guys on this list want to fill us in on their experience with 
externals.

David

> 
> 
>>>and then vote and implement the proposal.
>>>Maybe we could start a poropsal draft on the wiki to start formalizing a
>>>precise proposal while the discussion goes on.
>>>
>>
>>I'm all for working through the issues but I also wonder if bighting off
>>one peice at a time is worth considering.  I'm affraid that addressing
>>things like the mailing lists and redoing builds, and reorganizing
>>directory structures within jetspeed is more than is required right now.
>>
>>Simply moving the applications directory is a first step in the right
>>direction and it gives us a chance to "try" things out before taking on
>>a much larger effort (modifying the build, etc. . .).
>>
>>Can we vote and begin to play with applications so that we have some
>>"working knowledge" for the rest of our discussions?
>>
> 
> 
> If there's a consensus from the current active developers to go this way
> and move applications as a test, I'm definitely +1 but then I'm not
> active very often on the code so I'm not really the one impacted.
> 


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