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From David Le Strat <dlest...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Jetspeed2 development
Date Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:10:13 GMT
Your response is great. Email is definitely not the
best kind of medium for that type of discussion as it
usually takes quite a few of them to get on the same
page. ;o)

And I think we are mostly on the same page.  Most rule
engines I know use an XML definition to define the
rule.  As a developer the rule you give as an example
(user.age > 60 and user.sex = male then
> show him the discounts) is translated as an XML
document <condition>blabla</condition>.

Now, in your portlet you reference the rules and get a
dynamic behavior.

However, in most cases, rules need to be able to be
managed by business owners and those business owners
should have the ability to modify the rules
conditions.  Let's say user.age > 60  doesn't work, I
want to change it to user.age > 45. You need to
provide the ability to do this while the application
is running and can't redeploy everything for such a
change.  Therefore, how do you tie the change made at
runtime, remember that change so that next time the
application gets redeployed it is not overwritten.

Thoughts on this?

We may want to limit the scope of what we are trying
to do but part of the value of a rule engines is to be
able to achieve this.

Regards,

David.

--- Prabhu Kapaleeswaran <PKapaleeswaran@ifc.org>
wrote:
> Greetings !!
> 
> Just to give you a small brief of what we are trying
> to discuss. This will 
> bring us both to a same pace.
> 
> A typical rule system has 3 things
> 1. Rules
> 2. Facts
> 3. Agenda
> 
> The rules are typically defined by a business
> manager which say something 
> like if the user.age > 60 and user.sex = male then
> show him the discounts 
> on male items such as a walking stick etc etc.
> 
> During runtime when a user comes in, this is
> actually compared to this 
> rule and the execution happens. The actual process
> is done through a RETE 
> (comb) network (I guess if you search for Charles
> Forgy, you could get 
> more information). Drool as well as JESS are
> implementation of RETE.
> 
> We can do a small portlet which uses the user data
> structure to go into a 
> rule based system and show advertisements or some
> kind of personalized 
> message particular this user. We can do this by
> either integrating to an 
> existing RETE or building a new RETE.
> 
> We can provide hooks to these engines from jetspeed
> definitely. What I 
> dont understand is what do you mean when you say
> runtime and deployment ?
> 
> I am not sure if you are talking about making a
> framework to capacitate 
> the hooking and people to use this engine. 
> 
> Cheers
> Prabu K
> 
> PS : Sorry if my reply seems to be too academic, I
> just wanted to 
> understand your point of view before we can get
> started on anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Le Strat <dlestrat@yahoo.com>
> 10/23/2003 10:39 AM
> Please respond to "Jetspeed Developers List"
> 
>  
>         To:     Jetspeed Developers List
> <jetspeed-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        Re: Jetspeed2 development
> 
> 
> Prabhu,
> 
> The JSR you mention is JSR94 and has been in public
> review since September 2002.  In any case, I am not
> sure we have to write the tool. We need to write the
> Jetspeed hooks to the personalization engine.  A
> rule
> engine like Drools is on its way to JSR94 and should
> be able to be exposed to Jetspeed as a rule engine
> service (or whatever other rule engine, we could
> create a wrapper for the rules engine or really on
> the
> JSR94 api).  The challenge I see is tiing the rules
> being deployed to their runtime lifecycle.
> 
> In many personalization engines, the initial rule
> template is created at development time and managed
> at
> runtime. 
> 
> At development time, you create a rule that say and
> tie it to some code, jsp tag lib, code, whatever:
> 
> Show content to User X with Attribute Y and Z.
> 
> At runtime, the business user changes this to:
> 
> Show content to User in Group X with Attribute X1
> and
> Z2.
> 
> Now, we need to tie the two and maintain the
> relationship between runtime and deployment.  Do you
> have experience with this. I think this is where the
> difficult part of the work is.  Thoughts?
> 
> David.
> 
> --- Prabhu Kapaleeswaran <PKapaleeswaran@ifc.org>
> wrote:
> > Greetings !!
> > 
> > There is something called Standard Rule Language.
> > Blaze software (the way 
> > it was known then) was trying to bring this out.
> > After sometime blaze was 
> > bought out and I dont think much as happened to
> that
> > JSR.
> > 
> > The SRL allows you to define rules in simple
> english
> > like language, and on 
> > the other side converts it into something that is
> > executable. The rules go 
> > into rule sets. Blaze also gave a workflow bench
> > (Innovator Work Bench I 
> > think) that allowed you to apply these rule sets
> at
> > different points.  So 
> > to answer your question, we can build things that
> > can help us do this.
> > 
> > We need to build that tool. I have some idea of
> how
> > it works, I can 
> > probably write it down and put it across. I have
> > worked with the workbench 
> > during a period when Blaze was part of Brokat
> > Software. It was used for 
> > personalization at that point.
> > 
> > The other alternative you could consider is JESS.
> > There are already books 
> > floating from manning on JESS.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Prabu K
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Jeff Linwood" <jeff@greenninja.com>
> > 10/22/2003 05:57 PM
> > Please respond to "Jetspeed Developers List"
> > 
> > 
> >         To:     "Jetspeed Developers List"
> > <jetspeed-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> >         cc: 
> >         Subject:        Re: Jetspeed2 development
> > 
> > 
> > I just checked out drools, it looks really good,
> but
> > it's more for Java
> > developers.  Maybe there's a way to make it easier
> > and more accessible for
> > non-developers like content creators or portal
> > administrators?  Check out
> > Weblogic's engine, it's pretty simple.  More like
> if
> > this user has this
> > property or is in this group, show this content.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "David Le Strat" <dlestrat@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Jetspeed Developers List"
> > <jetspeed-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Jetspeed2 development
> > 
> > 
> > > I actually thinks it is a good idea to develop a
> > > personalization service on top of this.
> > >
> > > I have been looking a little bit at
> > >
> > > http://drools.org
> > > http://www.drools.org/pdf/drools-guide.pdf
> > >
> > > It seems on its way to be JSR94 compliant and
> > could be
> > > used as a rule engine for personalization
> purpose.
> > >
> > > The idea would be to be able to glue profile /
> > > entitlement / CMS through the rule engine
> allowing
> 
=== message truncated ===


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