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From Paul Brown <paulrbr...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: ODE, ODE 2.0, the Attic and the Incubator
Date Thu, 31 Jan 2019 05:04:46 GMT
Aaron - it has been a long time. (In fact, ODE grew out of work at my
company back in 2002-2003... if memory serves.)

That said, it costs me nothing to let things move forward and offer what
advice I can, but I expect to have a meager amount of time.

So +1 to some new life if that’s the way you want to go!

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 19:14 Aaron Anderson <aanderson@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Rich,
> As an ODE committer I would love to collaborate and modernize the existing
> ODE project. I received several direct emails from ODE users who are also
> interested in working on a new incarnation. Over the past few weeks I have
> been prototyping Ignite configurations and tasks for use in a business
> process management platform and I am pleased with my progress. I am fully
> dedicated to using this platform in a couple of internal applications I
> will be working on over the next year and I would eagerly like to synergize
> with others through the Apache Way. My current goal is to build
> functionality that satisfies many of the features I previously outlined so
> that myself and others could have something extensible to work from. As I
> mentioned in my previous communication process automation is big business
> and augmenting the mature and feature rich Ignite platform could provide a
> convenient low cost alternative to the other proprietary solutions in the
> space.
> With all that said it is entirely understandable that the current ODE PMC
> members desire to retire the ODE project to the attic and move on. I
> believe several of the members were part of the original ODE software
> contribution and incubator process 14+ years ago. Over the last few years
> interest in BPEL has diminished and they probably have no personal or
> financial incentives to remain involved with the project even if it were to
> be revived.
> If anyone else is interested in rebooting the ODE project now is the time
> to speak up. In any event I plan to continue to share my work on my github
> repo.
> Regards,
> Aaron
> -------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/16/19, Rich Bowen <rbowen@apache.org> wrote:
>  Subject: ODE, ODE 2.0, the Attic and the Incubator
>  To: user@ode.apache.org
>  Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 3:00 PM
>  (Oops. I mailed this to users@ rather than user@. Sorry for the
>  crosspost, but I wanted to be sure as
>  wide an audience as possible sees
>  this.)
>  Hi, ODE folks,
>  Please forgive this intrusion by an
>  outsider. I am aware that I lack
>  both the history of your project, and
>  the technical understanding of
>  your software. However, I represent the
>  Board of Directors, and we
>  wanted to discuss something with you
>  before you take your project to the
>  Attic.
>  In today's Board meeting, we discussed
>  your desire to move to the Attic,
>  while at the same time taking a new
>  project, with the same name, and the
>  same mission, albeit with different
>  architecture, to the Incubator.
>  We agreed to postpone your Attic
>  proposal another month, in the hopes of
>  ensuring that you're aware of all the
>  options that are available to you.
>  There is considerable precedent, at
>  Apache, for projects completely
>  reboot their code, while retaining the
>  existing project name and
>  community. The Apache HTTP server did
>  this very early on. Axis also did
>  this many years ago. The advantages of
>  this approach are numerous:
>  * You retain your brand equity (ie, the
>  value that you've already
>  established in your name)
>  * You tell the user community that
>  you're still solving the same
>  problem, although you're solving it
>  differently
>  * You save the hassle of going through
>  the Incubator for code that will
>  be developed "in house"
>  * You save the hassle of having to
>  Attic your project
>  * You eliminate a huge amount of user
>  confusion. "That project is dead."
>  "No, it's not, look over here." "Wait,
>  two projects with the same name?
>  Which one should I be using?" and so
>  on.
>  While the Board is not going to dictate
>  which route you should take
>  here, we strongly encourage you to use
>  your existing structure -
>  website, mailing lists, revision
>  control, etc - to bootstrap the new
>  proposal discussed at https://s.apache.org/rSlq  Leverage the existing
>  expertise in your existing community.
>  Build the new thing, and deprecate
>  the old thing, while being completely
>  transparent to your users that the
>  new thing is a completely new thing,
>  and isn't trying to be a drop-in
>  replacement.
>  We believe that doing the
>  community/project "reboot" in place, rather
>  than going via the Attic and Incubator,
>  is to the benefit of everyone -
>  you, your user community, the attic,
>  the incubator, Infrastructure, and
>  the Apache marketing team. And there
>  are lots of people on the board,
>  the members list, and the Community
>  Development team, who would be glad
>  to offer advice, assistance, and
>  whatever support you need to make this
>  happen.
>  What do you think?
>  --Rich, for the Board of Directors.

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