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From Aaron Anderson <aander...@apache.org>
Subject Re: ODE, ODE 2.0, the Attic and the Incubator
Date Thu, 31 Jan 2019 03:03:26 GMT

Hi Rich, 

As an ODE committer I would love to collaborate and modernize the existing ODE project. I
received several direct emails from ODE users who are also interested in working on a new
incarnation. Over the past few weeks I have been prototyping Ignite configurations and tasks
for use in a business process management platform and I am pleased with my progress. I am
fully dedicated to using this platform in a couple of internal applications I will be working
on over the next year and I would eagerly like to synergize with others through the Apache
Way. My current goal is to build functionality that satisfies many of the features I previously
outlined so that myself and others could have something extensible to work from. As I mentioned
in my previous communication process automation is big business and augmenting the mature
and feature rich Ignite platform could provide a convenient low cost alternative to the other
proprietary solutions in the space. 

With all that said it is entirely understandable that the current ODE PMC members desire to
retire the ODE project to the attic and move on. I believe several of the members were part
of the original ODE software contribution and incubator process 14+ years ago. Over the last
few years interest in BPEL has diminished and they probably have no personal or financial
incentives to remain involved with the project even if it were to be revived. 

If anyone else is interested in rebooting the ODE project now is the time to speak up. In
any event I plan to continue to share my work on my github repo. 



On Wed, 1/16/19, Rich Bowen <rbowen@apache.org> wrote:

 Subject: ODE, ODE 2.0, the Attic and the Incubator
 To: user@ode.apache.org
 Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 3:00 PM
 (Oops. I mailed this to users@ rather than user@. Sorry for the
 crosspost, but I wanted to be sure as
 wide an audience as possible sees
 Hi, ODE folks,
 Please forgive this intrusion by an
 outsider. I am aware that I lack
 both the history of your project, and
 the technical understanding of
 your software. However, I represent the
 Board of Directors, and we
 wanted to discuss something with you
 before you take your project to the
 In today's Board meeting, we discussed
 your desire to move to the Attic,
 while at the same time taking a new
 project, with the same name, and the
 same mission, albeit with different
 architecture, to the Incubator.
 We agreed to postpone your Attic
 proposal another month, in the hopes of
 ensuring that you're aware of all the
 options that are available to you.
 There is considerable precedent, at
 Apache, for projects completely
 reboot their code, while retaining the
 existing project name and
 community. The Apache HTTP server did
 this very early on. Axis also did
 this many years ago. The advantages of
 this approach are numerous:
 * You retain your brand equity (ie, the
 value that you've already
 established in your name)
 * You tell the user community that
 you're still solving the same
 problem, although you're solving it
 * You save the hassle of going through
 the Incubator for code that will
 be developed "in house"
 * You save the hassle of having to
 Attic your project
 * You eliminate a huge amount of user
 confusion. "That project is dead."
 "No, it's not, look over here." "Wait,
 two projects with the same name?
 Which one should I be using?" and so
 While the Board is not going to dictate
 which route you should take
 here, we strongly encourage you to use
 your existing structure -
 website, mailing lists, revision
 control, etc - to bootstrap the new
 proposal discussed at https://s.apache.org/rSlq  Leverage the existing
 expertise in your existing community.
 Build the new thing, and deprecate
 the old thing, while being completely
 transparent to your users that the
 new thing is a completely new thing,
 and isn't trying to be a drop-in
 We believe that doing the
 community/project "reboot" in place, rather
 than going via the Attic and Incubator,
 is to the benefit of everyone -
 you, your user community, the attic,
 the incubator, Infrastructure, and
 the Apache marketing team. And there
 are lots of people on the board,
 the members list, and the Community
 Development team, who would be glad
 to offer advice, assistance, and
 whatever support you need to make this
 What do you think?
 --Rich, for the Board of Directors.

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