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From Ming Wen <wenm...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache TVM Graduation
Date Thu, 27 Aug 2020 23:15:12 GMT
I think Apache TVM need more Apache releases and more release manager.
TVM has two apache releases(12/05/2019 and 07/10/2020), and ONLY one
release manager(liuyizhi) [1].

[1] https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/tvm.html

Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX & Apache SkyWalking
Twitter: _WenMing


Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com> 于2020年8月28日周五 上午4:44写道:

> Yes, as Tianqi has mentioned, the PPMC members watch the commits and
> development of TVM podling using Github notifications, which sent to dev@
> list.
> So, they are still in the podling list.
>
> And of course we can always review the commits@ list via Pony mail [1]
> when
> needed.
>
>
> - Henry
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?commits@tvm.apache.org
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:16 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Dave!
> >
> >
> > > With no one subscribed to commits@ how is the PPMC watching the
> > codebase?
> > >
> >
> > I believe most of us watch the codebase through github instead of the
> > commits@.
> > Note that the github discuss issues (VOTE, RFC, COMMUNITY) are forwarded
> to
> > dev@(rather than commits), so we can make sure that anyone who
> > subscribed to dev@ can follow overall development, without having to be
> > overwhelmed by the information in raw gituhb notifications.
> >
> > With only one PPMC member subscribed it would be better not to have
> > > security list and instead count on securty@apache to inform
> private@tvm.
> >
> >
> > I agree that is our oversight, I created the security@mail-list, but
> later
> > realized that  we can count on securty@apache, the current security
> guide
> > https://tvm.apache.org/docs/dev/security.html already points to
> > security@apache
> > but I forget to ask infra to remove the list
> >
> > To address the question about bringing in people to the committers.
> > The PPMC totally agrees about bringing in new members actively to the
> > community! And we are doing so in a quite steady fashion.
> >
> > I agree that there could be some cases where a person's proposal could be
> > slightly delayed, because I try to refrain from proposing new committers
> > from our own orgs.
> > But overall we find that our community members interact with each
> > other(outside their organizations) more often, and usually my fellow PMC
> > members bring them to the commiterships in a timely manner:)
> > I also think a slight lag is understandable given that most PPMC members
> > are volunteers from a diverse group and operate on their part time
> > capacity.
> >
> > Given both principles (not nominating from same org and un-official
> > reviewer) are voted by the community, and we use explicit disclaimer for
> > the cases, I believe it still works under the ASF framework. Just like
> the
> > un-official maturity model used by the incubator, which serves a goal to
> > the community to grow, rather than as a gatekeeper
> >
> > Again, we strive to continue the effort of bringing in new members to the
> > community, and nurturing community growth as we do so now.
> >
> > TQ
> >
> >
> >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hope these answers help clarify your concerns and questions about the
> > > > Apache TVM community.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > - Henry
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:58 AM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Thank you Dave!
> > > >>
> > > >> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and
> > Committer
> > > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems
to me
> > that
> > > >>> these individuals should just become Committers.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Reviewer is not an official position, but as a way for us to
> encourage
> > > >> reviews and find potential candidates for committerships.
> > > >> We use the following disclaimer which we sent during discussion a
> > > reviewer
> > > >> case and not vote is carried out(to lower bar of entry)
> > > >>
> > > >> Background: A Reviewer is not an official role, the community use
> this
> > > >> way to recognize potential committers early and bring them to the
> > > >> project development. Given the reviewer role is not official, we
> will
> > > >> only hold a discussion instead of a formal vote. We continue to
> follow
> > > >> the community’s principle to only nominate someone from a different
> > > >> organization.
> > > >>
> > > >> The recognition of (un-official) reviewer is voted by the community
> as
> > > part
> > > >> of Apache transition plan
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c34b728f01d1030146594e47e0706cd1990ed731d06e3c179b7d501a%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > > >>
> > > >> We strongly believe in nurturing contributions, welcome members to
> the
> > > >> community, and help the community to grow organically under the
> Apache
> > > way.
> > > >> The community is actively bringing in new committers, and we are
> doing
> > > so
> > > >> at a monthly rate.
> > > >> To encourage diversity and healthy growth the PPMC members strive
to
> > > make a
> > > >> more diverse community by only nominating people from a different
> > > >> organization.
> > > >> So there could be cases where a person from my own organization
> that I
> > > >> think should be nominated as a committer, but I wait until the
> person
> > > get
> > > >> recognized by a fellow PMC member
> > > >> from another organization. This wait usually won't be too long. Even
> > > >> better, the community members work together with each other,
> > > >> since  the most important factor is after all the community.
> > > >>
> > > >> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected into
> the
> > > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> As per apache way, everything happens (also happens) on dev@tvm. We
> > > try to
> > > >> set up the mechanism to enable maximum participation from the
> > community,
> > > >> while complying with ASF rules :)
> > > >> The emails from the dev@tvm are also forwarded to the github
> thread.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really
> > > >> discussed
> > > >>> about satisfying graduation requirements.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Please see the maturity model here
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing
> > > >> The maturity model is attached as part of the community discussion
> as
> > > >> well(inlined in the email when community model is mentioned.
> > > >>
> > > >> TQ
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:43 AM Dave Fisher <wave@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On Aug 27, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Dave Fisher <wave@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Hi -
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I am bothered by two things that TVM does.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor
and
> > > Committer
> > > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems
to me
> > that
> > > >>> these individuals should just become Committers.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Looking a little more closely it seems that Reviewers ought to
be
> PMC
> > > >>> Members. Please explain.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected
into
> > the
> > > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is
really
> > > >>> discussed about satisfying graduation requirements.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I see you held that back until the VOTE thread.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Regards,
> > > >>>> Dave
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Edit the subject so that it is obvious as a discussion
thread in
> > > >>>>> general@incubator.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> TQ
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> FYI, following a heated discussion with great support
from our
> > > >> mentors,
> > > >>>>>> committers and community members.
> > > >>>>>> The  Apache(incubating) TVM is starting a vote to
graduate as
> TLP
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> - [1] community DISCUSS thread:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > > >>>>>> - [2] voting thread:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd5b8eefe49af09a2d0913758a5e5737b3fdb9072bc0becf4a2b2c7ee%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> TQ
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > >>>>>> From: Tianqi Chen <notifications@github.com>
> > > >>>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:51 PM
> > > >>>>>> Subject: [apache/incubator-tvm] [VOTE] Apache TVM
Graduation
> > (#6332)
> > > >>>>>> To: apache/incubator-tvm <incubator-tvm@noreply.github.com>
> > > >>>>>> Cc: Subscribed <subscribed@noreply.github.com>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Dear Community:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Thanks  to everyone who participated in the discussion
about
> > > >>>>>> graduation[1]. This is a formal voting thread for
Apache TVM’s
> > > >>> graduation.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> If this vote passes, the next step would be to submit
the
> > resolution
> > > >>> below
> > > >>>>>> to the Incubator PMC, who would vote on sending it
on to the
> > Apache
> > > >>> Board.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Vote:
> > > >>>>>> [ ] +1 - Recommend graduation of Apache TVM as a TLP
> > > >>>>>> [ ]  0 - I don't feel strongly about it, but don't
object
> > > >>>>>> [ ] -1 - Do not recommend graduation of Apache TVM
because...
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> The VOTE will open for at least 72 hours.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> This thread is mirrored to dev@, please vote by replying
to
> this
> > > >>> thread
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> ------------------
> > > >>>>>> The TVM project has been an Apache incubator project
for nearly
> > 1.5
> > > >>> year
> > > >>>>>> now. In the past one and half year, the community
grew healthily
> > > >> under
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> Apache way. Some highlights include:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> - A successful developer conference that we are continuing
to
> host
> > > >> this
> > > >>>>>> year
> > > >>>>>> - Great community growth, as of now, the community
contains 16
> > PPMC
> > > >>>>>> members, 31 committers, from a diverse list of organizations.
We
> > are
> > > >>>>>> actively growing the list monthly.
> > > >>>>>> - Active contributions: ~ 150 PRs merged each month.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> The community has produced two formal apache releases.
While we
> > > could
> > > >>> also
> > > >>>>>> wait until more releases. We feel that the community
is mature
> > > enough
> > > >>> that
> > > >>>>>> we can push for graduation as it is, and continue
to push for
> high
> > > >>> quality
> > > >>>>>> releases concurrently.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> For reference, we also put together a maturity evaluation
doc[2]
> > > >> under
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> Apache maturity model.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Some additional note about the resolution below: the
current
> PPMC
> > > >> will
> > > >>> be
> > > >>>>>> transitioned to the PMC. We have invited all the mentors
in the
> > > >> current
> > > >>>>>> PPMC who like to stay involved.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> -----------------
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Establish the Apache TVM Project
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in
the best
> > interests
> > > >> of
> > > >>>>>> the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
purpose to
> > > >>> establish
> > > >>>>>> a Project Management Committee charged with the creation
and
> > > >>> maintenance
> > > >>>>>> of open-source software, for distribution at no charge
to the
> > > public,
> > > >>>>>> related to compilation of machine learning models
to run on a
> wide
> > > >>> range
> > > >>>>>> of hardware platforms...
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee
> > > >>>>>> (PMC), to be known as the "Apache TVM Project", be
and hereby is
> > > >>>>>> established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation;
and be it
> > further
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby
is
> responsible
> > > >> for
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> creation and maintenance of software related to compilation
of
> > > >> machine
> > > >>>>>> learning models to run on a wide range of hardware
platforms;
> and
> > be
> > > >> it
> > > >>>>>> further
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache
TVM" be and
> > > >>>>>> hereby is created, the person holding such office
to serve at
> the
> > > >>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of
the Apache
> TVM
> > > >>>>>> Project, and to have primary responsibility for management
of
> the
> > > >>>>>> projects within the scope of responsibility of the
Apache TVM
> > > >>>>>> Project; and be it further
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below
be and
> hereby
> > > are
> > > >>>>>> appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache
TVM
> > Project:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> * Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Timothy Chen <tnachen@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Zhi Chen <zhic@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Byung-Gon Chun <bgchun@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Ziheng Jiang <ziheng@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Furkan Kamaci <kamaci@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * YiZhi Liu <liuyizhi@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Masahiro Masuda <masahi@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Thierry Moreau <moreau@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Jared Roesch <jroesch@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Henry Saputra <hsaputra@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Haichen Shen <haichen@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Markus Weimer <weimer@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Eddie Yan <eqy@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>> * Lianmin Zheng <lmzheng@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Tianqi
Chen be
> > > appointed
> > > >>> to
> > > >>>>>> the office of Vice President, Apache TVM, to serve
in accordance
> > > >>>>>> with and subject to the direction of the Board of
Directors and
> > the
> > > >>>>>> Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation,
retirement,
> > > >> removal
> > > >>>>>> or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
and be
> it
> > > >>>>>> further
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby
is tasked
> with
> > > >>>>>> the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator
TVM
> > > >>>>>> podling; and be it further
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to
the Apache
> > > >> Incubator
> > > >>>>>> TVM  podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
PMC are
> > hereafter
> > > >>>>>> Discharged.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> - [1]
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > > >>>>>> - [2]
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed
to this
> thread.
> > > >>>>>> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
> > > >>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tvm/issues/6332
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
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> > > >>>>
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> > > >>>
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