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From Ming Wen <wenm...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache TVM Graduation
Date Mon, 31 Aug 2020 05:47:45 GMT
hello, tianqi,
thanks for your detailed response.
I have another question: https://tvmconf.org/ who has control of this
domain name?
Looks like it's controlled by https://github.com/tvmconf.

Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX & Apache SkyWalking
Twitter: _WenMing


Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> 于2020年8月31日周一 下午1:08写道:

> Thanks Justin, Henry, Dave, Ming, Matt for helpful feedbacks.
>
> Personally I find the current conversation a good living example of the
> Apache way for consensus building :)
> Thanks to the helpful feedback we have resolved several issues.
>
> In order to clarify the situation, please allow me to dissect and summarize
> the current situation.
> There are a few categories of topics (related to the Apache way) this
> thread have touched so far:
>
> Compliance
>
> Compliance is what every project is required to do. These policies are set
> to protect Apache’s brand,
> encourage community over code and set a common foundation for the projects.
> Usually a compliance is
> well documented (as per-apache way, what is not documented did not happen).
> The TVM PPMC has been diligently
> upholding compliances, including, but not limited to
>
> - T0 Project website hosted at ASF https://tvm.apache.org/.
> - T1 Produce apache release, no cat-X code.
> - T2 No advertising non-release items as Apache release.
> - T3 Protect Apache brand, working with trademark to resolve branding
> concerns.
> - T4 Clearly marks third party artifacts and makes sure they comply with
> trademark policies.
> - T5 Open development: everyone happens (also) happens on dev@
> - T6 Consider all forms of contributions for committer nomination.
> - T7 Make sure release processes are clearly documented, reproducible by
> any committers.
>
> Customary
>
> There are also a few topics that touch on what many Apache(incubating)
> projects do, but are not (yet) strict compliance.
> The TVM PPMC could improve on. Specifically, the following item:
>
> - K0 Usually an incubator project produces three apache releases, with
> multiple release managers.
>   So far TVM PPMC produced two apache releases by one manager (many PPMC
> members helped on the two releases).
>
> Community
>
> Finally, the “community over code” is one of the most important factors of
> the Apache way.
> The TVM PPMC has been working very hard to foster a healthy, diverse and
> independent community,
> and will continue to do so.
>
> - C0: Consider all forms of contributions as merit.
> - C1: Encourage community diversity by only nominating people from
> different organizations.
> - C2: Actively discusses, and brings in new committers from diverse
> backgrounds.
>         The community grows healthily  and is quite vibrant.
>
> Concerns
>
> - X0: Right now, Justin and Ming rightfully point out that while the TVM
> community has fulfilled T7, we could improve in K0.
> - X1: The subdomain name (discuss.tvm.ai) is something that we would like
> to work with trademarks@ to clarify.
>       According to the current policy, the apache trademark cannot be used
> “when the content of that domain is related
>       to any related software products or services”. The subdomain is not
> providing any software product or deriving services
>       related to tvm. The TVM PPMC would be more than happy to follow
> trademark’s suggestion.
>
> Please let me know if the summary could be improved in any way, and we
> would also welcome more feedback.
>
> Thank you!
> TQ
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:08 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I would like to revisit a bit about the release topic to shed light about
> > the release process.
> > The TVM PPMC has always been focusing on producing high quality releases.
> >
> > - The project has produced five major (non-apache) releases prior joining
> > Apache
> > - While most incubator projects start with a DISCLAIMER-WIP, the TVM
> > community strives to keep the release quality high and uses the
> DISCLAIMER
> >    in the beginning of the first release[1]. The first release contains a
> > few rough edges and gets resolved very quickly thanks to the feedback
> from
> > Justin and other IPMC members.
> >    The second release is super smooth.
> > - Multiple PMC members work together to generate these releases.
> >
> > TQ
> > ----
> > - [1]
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ad19634352f97d0a5b2bec866bcdecd556ca414cc6d4487b2282ce10%40%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 8:54 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> We have also talked to Apache INFRA about the use of the
> >> https://ci.tvm.ai/ due to the need of special setups in terms of GPU
> >> based resources etc.
> >>
> >> So far we have received warm help from the INFRA and they are super
> >> helpful in helping setting up CI hooks so that the community can enjoy
> quick
> >> development with the volunteer maintained CI. Running and serving the
> >> community well, we would certainly happy to use a different name if
> asked by
> >> the trademark.
> >>
> >> TQ
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 8:49 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> tvmlang.org was an old url by the project that eventually got
> >>> deprecated at some time point, it now redirects to the
> >>> https://tvm.apache.org/
> >>>
> >>> The PMC makes sure to redirect to the static Apache project when
> >>> possible for official project related information.
> >>>
> >>> Due to the mechanism of the discourse website(need an active server),
> >>> and CI (tracking is not used and is removed). It is necessary to use a
> >>> standalone domain name
> >>> - These domains are maintained by volunteers from TVM PMC members
> >>> (tqchen, yizhi, haichen, jroesch, ziheng, lianminzheng, zhiics, masahi,
> >>> thierry from different organizations)
> >>>   as a thirdparty service to help the community.
> >>> - Given that these domains are not used to represent the official
> apache
> >>> project website(no confusion), and the usage voted by the community
> [2],
> >>>   the PPMC believes it is fair to use these domains to serve the
> >>> community, just like the use of thirdparty conference website for some
> of
> >>> the ASF projects' developer conferences.
> >>> - Of course we would love to get approval/feedback from the trademark.
> >>> We have started a trademark thread on the community discourse forum
> domain
> >>> [1],
> >>>    and would be more than happy to follow up the guidance of the
> >>> trademark discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Again the hopefully outcome is not to discourage the use of these
> >>> services. The PMC members strive to make sure that these thirdparty
> >>> services are sustained,
> >>> and remain "non-blocker" even when they go down.
> >>>
> >>> - Introduce multiple volunteers from different organizations in the PMC
> >>> to do the work.
> >>> - Make sure the messages are backed up to mail-list.
> >>> - In the case of CI, have a clear workflow(JenkinsFile) and docker
> >>> source so that any committer could have spin up CI when necessary.
> >>> - Every development activities (also) happens on dev@
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> TQ
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> - [1]
> >>>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd23004bf526975fceebd1b0bae7120dc1935bb61b7cdd8243fbc36dd%40%3Ctrademarks.apache.org%3E
> >>> - [2]
> >>>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c34b728f01d1030146594e47e0706cd1990ed731d06e3c179b7d501a%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 8:20 PM Justin Mclean <
> justin@classsoftware.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry my mistake, I meant to say tvm.ai not tvm.io, but as I said
> >>>> subdomains on tvm.ai are not redirecting. For instance discuss.tvm.ai
> >>>> stays as it is. Other sub-domains include ci.tvm.ai , tracking.tvm.ai
> >>>> and docs.tvm.ai that I’ve found. There might be others, of those
> four,
> >>>> only docs redirects.
> >>>>
> >>>> I notice that forum [1] also states "Open source community on end to
> >>>> end stack for deploying deep learning workloads to hardware backends
> >>>> tvmlang.org.” Who controls tvmlang.org? It not clear on that page
> that
> >>>> this is a space for discussion about an Apache project.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Justin
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. https://discuss.tvm.ai
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
>

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