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From Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache TVM Graduation
Date Thu, 27 Aug 2020 20:43:39 GMT
Yes, as Tianqi has mentioned, the PPMC members watch the commits and
development of TVM podling using Github notifications, which sent to dev@
list.
So, they are still in the podling list.

And of course we can always review the commits@ list via Pony mail [1] when
needed.


- Henry

[1] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?commits@tvm.apache.org

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:16 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:

> Thanks Dave!
>
>
> > With no one subscribed to commits@ how is the PPMC watching the
> codebase?
> >
>
> I believe most of us watch the codebase through github instead of the
> commits@.
> Note that the github discuss issues (VOTE, RFC, COMMUNITY) are forwarded to
> dev@(rather than commits), so we can make sure that anyone who
> subscribed to dev@ can follow overall development, without having to be
> overwhelmed by the information in raw gituhb notifications.
>
> With only one PPMC member subscribed it would be better not to have
> > security list and instead count on securty@apache to inform private@tvm.
>
>
> I agree that is our oversight, I created the security@mail-list, but later
> realized that  we can count on securty@apache, the current security guide
> https://tvm.apache.org/docs/dev/security.html already points to
> security@apache
> but I forget to ask infra to remove the list
>
> To address the question about bringing in people to the committers.
> The PPMC totally agrees about bringing in new members actively to the
> community! And we are doing so in a quite steady fashion.
>
> I agree that there could be some cases where a person's proposal could be
> slightly delayed, because I try to refrain from proposing new committers
> from our own orgs.
> But overall we find that our community members interact with each
> other(outside their organizations) more often, and usually my fellow PMC
> members bring them to the commiterships in a timely manner:)
> I also think a slight lag is understandable given that most PPMC members
> are volunteers from a diverse group and operate on their part time
> capacity.
>
> Given both principles (not nominating from same org and un-official
> reviewer) are voted by the community, and we use explicit disclaimer for
> the cases, I believe it still works under the ASF framework. Just like the
> un-official maturity model used by the incubator, which serves a goal to
> the community to grow, rather than as a gatekeeper
>
> Again, we strive to continue the effort of bringing in new members to the
> community, and nurturing community growth as we do so now.
>
> TQ
>
>
>
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > >
> > > Hope these answers help clarify your concerns and questions about the
> > > Apache TVM community.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > - Henry
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:58 AM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thank you Dave!
> > >>
> > >> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and
> Committer
> > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems to
me
> that
> > >>> these individuals should just become Committers.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Reviewer is not an official position, but as a way for us to encourage
> > >> reviews and find potential candidates for committerships.
> > >> We use the following disclaimer which we sent during discussion a
> > reviewer
> > >> case and not vote is carried out(to lower bar of entry)
> > >>
> > >> Background: A Reviewer is not an official role, the community use this
> > >> way to recognize potential committers early and bring them to the
> > >> project development. Given the reviewer role is not official, we will
> > >> only hold a discussion instead of a formal vote. We continue to follow
> > >> the community’s principle to only nominate someone from a different
> > >> organization.
> > >>
> > >> The recognition of (un-official) reviewer is voted by the community as
> > part
> > >> of Apache transition plan
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c34b728f01d1030146594e47e0706cd1990ed731d06e3c179b7d501a%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > >>
> > >> We strongly believe in nurturing contributions, welcome members to the
> > >> community, and help the community to grow organically under the Apache
> > way.
> > >> The community is actively bringing in new committers, and we are doing
> > so
> > >> at a monthly rate.
> > >> To encourage diversity and healthy growth the PPMC members strive to
> > make a
> > >> more diverse community by only nominating people from a different
> > >> organization.
> > >> So there could be cases where a person from my own organization that I
> > >> think should be nominated as a committer, but I wait until the person
> > get
> > >> recognized by a fellow PMC member
> > >> from another organization. This wait usually won't be too long. Even
> > >> better, the community members work together with each other,
> > >> since  the most important factor is after all the community.
> > >>
> > >> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected into the
> > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> As per apache way, everything happens (also happens) on dev@tvm. We
> > try to
> > >> set up the mechanism to enable maximum participation from the
> community,
> > >> while complying with ASF rules :)
> > >> The emails from the dev@tvm are also forwarded to the github thread.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really
> > >> discussed
> > >>> about satisfying graduation requirements.
> > >>>
> > >>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Please see the maturity model here
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing
> > >> The maturity model is attached as part of the community discussion as
> > >> well(inlined in the email when community model is mentioned.
> > >>
> > >> TQ
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:43 AM Dave Fisher <wave@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Aug 27, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Dave Fisher <wave@apache.org>
wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi -
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I am bothered by two things that TVM does.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and
> > Committer
> > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems to
me
> that
> > >>> these individuals should just become Committers.
> > >>>
> > >>> Looking a little more closely it seems that Reviewers ought to be PMC
> > >>> Members. Please explain.
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected into
> the
> > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really
> > >>> discussed about satisfying graduation requirements.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model?
> > >>>
> > >>> I see you held that back until the VOTE thread.
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Regards,
> > >>>> Dave
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Edit the subject so that it is obvious as a discussion thread
in
> > >>>>> general@incubator.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> TQ
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> FYI, following a heated discussion with great support from
our
> > >> mentors,
> > >>>>>> committers and community members.
> > >>>>>> The  Apache(incubating) TVM is starting a vote to graduate
as TLP
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - [1] community DISCUSS thread:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > >>>>>> - [2] voting thread:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd5b8eefe49af09a2d0913758a5e5737b3fdb9072bc0becf4a2b2c7ee%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> TQ
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > >>>>>> From: Tianqi Chen <notifications@github.com>
> > >>>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:51 PM
> > >>>>>> Subject: [apache/incubator-tvm] [VOTE] Apache TVM Graduation
> (#6332)
> > >>>>>> To: apache/incubator-tvm <incubator-tvm@noreply.github.com>
> > >>>>>> Cc: Subscribed <subscribed@noreply.github.com>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Dear Community:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks  to everyone who participated in the discussion
about
> > >>>>>> graduation[1]. This is a formal voting thread for Apache
TVM’s
> > >>> graduation.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If this vote passes, the next step would be to submit the
> resolution
> > >>> below
> > >>>>>> to the Incubator PMC, who would vote on sending it on to
the
> Apache
> > >>> Board.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Vote:
> > >>>>>> [ ] +1 - Recommend graduation of Apache TVM as a TLP
> > >>>>>> [ ]  0 - I don't feel strongly about it, but don't object
> > >>>>>> [ ] -1 - Do not recommend graduation of Apache TVM because...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The VOTE will open for at least 72 hours.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This thread is mirrored to dev@, please vote by replying
to this
> > >>> thread
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ------------------
> > >>>>>> The TVM project has been an Apache incubator project for
nearly
> 1.5
> > >>> year
> > >>>>>> now. In the past one and half year, the community grew
healthily
> > >> under
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> Apache way. Some highlights include:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - A successful developer conference that we are continuing
to host
> > >> this
> > >>>>>> year
> > >>>>>> - Great community growth, as of now, the community contains
16
> PPMC
> > >>>>>> members, 31 committers, from a diverse list of organizations.
We
> are
> > >>>>>> actively growing the list monthly.
> > >>>>>> - Active contributions: ~ 150 PRs merged each month.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The community has produced two formal apache releases.
While we
> > could
> > >>> also
> > >>>>>> wait until more releases. We feel that the community is
mature
> > enough
> > >>> that
> > >>>>>> we can push for graduation as it is, and continue to push
for high
> > >>> quality
> > >>>>>> releases concurrently.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> For reference, we also put together a maturity evaluation
doc[2]
> > >> under
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> Apache maturity model.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Some additional note about the resolution below: the current
PPMC
> > >> will
> > >>> be
> > >>>>>> transitioned to the PMC. We have invited all the mentors
in the
> > >> current
> > >>>>>> PPMC who like to stay involved.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -----------------
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Establish the Apache TVM Project
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests
> > >> of
> > >>>>>> the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose
to
> > >>> establish
> > >>>>>> a Project Management Committee charged with the creation
and
> > >>> maintenance
> > >>>>>> of open-source software, for distribution at no charge
to the
> > public,
> > >>>>>> related to compilation of machine learning models to run
on a wide
> > >>> range
> > >>>>>> of hardware platforms...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee
> > >>>>>> (PMC), to be known as the "Apache TVM Project", be and
hereby is
> > >>>>>> established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be
it
> further
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby is
responsible
> > >> for
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> creation and maintenance of software related to compilation
of
> > >> machine
> > >>>>>> learning models to run on a wide range of hardware platforms;
and
> be
> > >> it
> > >>>>>> further
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache TVM"
be and
> > >>>>>> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve
at the
> > >>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
Apache TVM
> > >>>>>> Project, and to have primary responsibility for management
of the
> > >>>>>> projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache
TVM
> > >>>>>> Project; and be it further
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be
and hereby
> > are
> > >>>>>> appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache
TVM
> Project:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> * Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Timothy Chen <tnachen@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Zhi Chen <zhic@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Byung-Gon Chun <bgchun@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Ziheng Jiang <ziheng@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Furkan Kamaci <kamaci@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * YiZhi Liu <liuyizhi@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Masahiro Masuda <masahi@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Thierry Moreau <moreau@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Jared Roesch <jroesch@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Henry Saputra <hsaputra@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Haichen Shen <haichen@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Markus Weimer <weimer@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Eddie Yan <eqy@apache.org>
> > >>>>>> * Lianmin Zheng <lmzheng@apache.org>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Tianqi Chen
be
> > appointed
> > >>> to
> > >>>>>> the office of Vice President, Apache TVM, to serve in accordance
> > >>>>>> with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors
and
> the
> > >>>>>> Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement,
> > >> removal
> > >>>>>> or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
and be it
> > >>>>>> further
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby is
tasked with
> > >>>>>> the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator
TVM
> > >>>>>> podling; and be it further
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > >> Incubator
> > >>>>>> TVM  podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator PMC are
> hereafter
> > >>>>>> Discharged.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - [1]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
> > >>>>>> - [2]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this
thread.
> > >>>>>> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
> > >>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tvm/issues/6332
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>
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> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
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