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From Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache TVM Graduation
Date Sat, 29 Aug 2020 02:13:12 GMT
Makes sense. Do you think the recent changes to Docker Hub will affect
this? It might be a good idea to move the images into the Apache org, even
if they’re not for end users.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 20:52 Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:

> Thanks Matt!
>
>
>
> That was indeed the approach we used before. The main problem of this
>
> approach is
>
> - There could be certain upstream changes (say tensorflow get updated) that
>
> may not retrigger the rebuild
>
> - The CI instance itself can quickly get crowded by the historical cached
>
> images and causes disk overflow problems.
>
> - Overall we find it is very hard to reproduce the CI error when there is a
>
> problem because of the potential mismatch(due to stale build)
>
>
>
> So the community switched to using a stable binary tag as for more stable
>
> env without blocking the CI, while periodically updating
>
> these images when this is a dependency change.
>
>
>
> TQ
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 6:47 PM Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Is there even a need to upload the Docker images for CI? Docker
> recognizes
>
> > layers by checksums, so CI build agents will cache the image layers
>
> > regardless of whether or not you upload them to Docker Hub. Layers get
>
> > rebuilt when the Docker file changes or you force an update.
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 20:12 Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Thanks Justin and Henry for the discussion thread.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Please allow me to dissect and summarize again some of the discussion
>
> > >
>
> > > points:)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > C0: Docker Image
>
> > >
>
> > > - There was a mis-understanding that the docker image like ci-gpu
>
> > >
>
> > >   contains tvm. They do not, and instead contain an environment to
>
> > >
>
> > >   build and run test cases.
>
> > >
>
> > > - The thirdparty binary cache is used to speed up the test build.
> Anyone
>
> > >
>
> > >   could build these binaries from a TVM source.
>
> > >
>
> > > - To avoid confusion about the branding, we have renamed the docker hub
>
> > >
>
> > > name to
>
> > >
>
> > >   a different name that does not contain tvm so that it is clear as a
>
> > >
>
> > > thirdparty.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > C1: Pointing to Apache Release
>
> > >
>
> > > - The PPMC 100% agree that we should produce high-quality Apache
>
> > >
>
> > >   compatible releases, and refer to them in the documents.
>
> > >
>
> > > - The installation documentation points to the official release
> download
>
> > >
>
> > > page [1].
>
> > >
>
> > > - There is a for developer section, which gives instructions to
>
> > developers
>
> > >
>
> > > about
>
> > >
>
> > >   how to clone the code from the git repo.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > C2: Number of releases
>
> > >
>
> > > - The PPMC wants to produce high quality releases according to feature
>
> > >
>
> > >   plan coordinated with the community, rather than creating more
>
> > releases.
>
> > >
>
> > > - The release process is well documented[2],
>
> > >
>
> > > - Per incubator policy[2], number of releases is not a hard bar for
>
> > >
>
> > > graduation.
>
> > >
>
> > >   "Podlings do not need to actually publish a release...". Instead the
>
> > most
>
> > >
>
> > > important
>
> > >
>
> > >   thing is the demonstration of being able to cut apache release.
>
> > >
>
> > > - Besides the release process being well documented and there are
> already
>
> > >
>
> > >   two high-quality releases(without WIP). The PMC contains several
> Apache
>
> > >
>
> > > members
>
> > >
>
> > >   who have previous experiences in cutting releases in TLP projects.
>
> > >
>
> > >   We are very confident that the PMC can continue to do so.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > C3: The discourse forum
>
> > >
>
> > > - The discourse forum, like the use of github, is mainly a way for user
>
> > >
>
> > > community to
>
> > >
>
> > >   engage with the project.
>
> > >
>
> > > - The usage of discourse forum is voted by the community[3]
>
> > >
>
> > > - The community follows the public archive principle, which means
>
> > >
>
> > > everything is archived
>
> > >
>
> > >   to mail-lists. Again, everything happens (also) happens on a
> mail-list.
>
> > >
>
> > > - The discourse forum is currently maintained by a few PMC members as
>
> > >
>
> > > volunteers,
>
> > >
>
> > >   as a thirdparty service to the community.
>
> > >
>
> > > - Again, the development happens in github, everything mirrored in dev@
> .
>
> > >
>
> > > The existence of the forum
>
> > >
>
> > >   would not block the development.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Finally, to summarize. I believe one of the main reasons behind these
>
> > >
>
> > > issues are trust rather than procedural.
>
> > >
>
> > > As a ASF member, I am certainly strive to make sure the related
> volunteer
>
> > >
>
> > > maintained resources
>
> > >
>
> > > will continue beyond a certain individual by many ways including:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > - Introduce multiple volunteers from different organizations in the PMC
>
> > to
>
> > >
>
> > > do the work.
>
> > >
>
> > > - Make sure the messages are backed up to mail-list.
>
> > >
>
> > > - Help INFRA to manage certain services instead if they are willing.
>
> > >
>
> > > However, note in cases like CI
>
> > >
>
> > >   INFRA is also happy to let the PMC make specific choices.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > While many of the arguments in the above points boils down to "what if
>
> > the
>
> > >
>
> > > few people did something evil via loophole X".
>
> > >
>
> > > And similar arguments can be applied to committer nominations in
> general.
>
> > >
>
> > > As I may quote from our committer
>
> > >
>
> > > nomination message "We like to work on trust rather than unnecessary
>
> > >
>
> > > constraints".
>
> > >
>
> > > This is the message that keeps bringing me back and makes me proud as a
>
> > ASF
>
> > >
>
> > > member.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > There is no "one way" to the Apache way[3]. IMHO, the best thing I love
>
> > >
>
> > > about the ASF is indeed the people, and the
>
> > >
>
> > > trust we give to each PMC as long as things are operated under the
> Apache
>
> > >
>
> > > Way. The TVM PPMC has been working hard to
>
> > >
>
> > > build a healthy, diverse and independent community. And strives to
>
> > protect
>
> > >
>
> > > the Apache brand and uphold apache release policy.
>
> > >
>
> > > Again, we welcome constructive feedback for continued improvement.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Thank you!
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > TQ
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > -----
>
> > >
>
> > > - [1]
>
> > >
>
> > >
> https://tvm.apache.org/docs/install/from_source.html#install-from-source
>
> > >
>
> > > - [2] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> > >
>
> > > - [3]
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c34b728f01d1030146594e47e0706cd1990ed731d06e3c179b7d501a%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E
>
> > >
>
> > > - [4] https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 5:15 PM Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Sure, that is easy to fix and good suggestion. But, hope it is not a
>
> > >
>
> > > > blocker issue.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 5:09 PM Justin Mclean <
> justin@classsoftware.com>
>
> > >
>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > > Hi,
>
> > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > > The "install from source” page should probably point people to
the
>
> > > source
>
> > >
>
> > > > > releases rather than the latest code in GitHub.
>
> > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > > Thanks,
>
> > >
>
> > > > > Justin
>
> > >
>
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > >
>
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>
> > >
>
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
> > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > --
>
> > Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>
> >
>
> --
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>

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