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From Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Problems with Committer Invite Documentation
Date Tue, 04 Aug 2020 20:53:55 GMT


> On Aug 4, 2020, at 1:31 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:19 PM leerho <leerho@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>> 
>> It is our first time going through the recommended New Committer process
>> and we have uncovered some significant problems with the documentation
>> <https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html#new-committer-process>.
>> 
>> 
> First understand that this site (community.a.o) is maintained by comdev.
> Podlings should be following the processes at http://incubator.apache.org/
> 
> 
>>   - The most serious problem is step A: of the "Committer Invite Template"
>>   on the above page:
>> 
>> A. This personal invitation is a chance for you to
>>> accept or decline in private.  Either way, please
>>> let us know in reply to the [private@project.apache.org]
>>> address only.
>>> 
>>> This is a potential disaster, since the candidate will not have read or
>> write privileges to the private mail list, the candidate's reply will
>> simply disappear into the bit-bucket! I would recommend changing this
>> paragraph to:
>> 
>> A. Please reply directly to me if you wish to accept (or not accept) this
>>> invitation.
>> 
>> 
> No.  Why do you think it will disappear into the "bit-bucket"?  The
> candidate would have the email in their inbox and would be able to archive
> it/save it for reference however they choose fit.  private mailing lists
> may have moderation in place, but since it's a legitimate email the
> moderators of the list should moderate it through if it does get
> moderated.  The acceptance should also be on the podling's private list to
> allow the ASF to have a permanent record of the acceptance.

I have moderated numerous such requests in the past. Usually within 24 hours, but occasionally
within 104 hours.

I have a Smart Mail filter to make sure that I see all moderation emails even though the vast
majority are spam.

> 
> 
>> 
>> Presumably the person sending this message will be someone from the PMC /
>> PPMC that the candidate already has had some contact with. Also, hopefully,
>> the sender has enough good sense to not CC non-private mail lists or other
>> people on the invite, which will make the exchange as private as possible.
>> 
>> 
> Yes, the person sending the invite needs to be on the PMC/PPMC.  Typically
> this is done by whoever actually did the nomination but there is no formal
> rule about who must or must not send it (in some TLPs I think they expect
> the chair to do it, podlings don't have chairs).

Typically a response is required in 30 days and the PPMC and Mentors will need to track the
result.

Sometimes a nominee has to ask their company if they can sign an ICLA and not every one can.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>   - The next problem is the wording of the first sentence of the
>>   2nd paragraph:
>> 
>> Being a committer enables you to more easily make
>>> changes without needing to go through the patch
>>> submission process.
>>> 
>>> 
>> This is basically recommending bad programming practice! We encourage all
>> our committers to use the PR and review process on all but the most trivial
>> commits (e.g., documentation typos).  I would recommend simplifying this
>> sentence to:
>> 
>> Being a committer grants you write access to the project repositories.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> That's a fair point, but not all projects follow this pattern.  In
> addition, the template is free to be modified by each project, you're under
> no obligation to follow the published format verbatim; so if your project
> chooses to invite someone and wants to reword the text you can.
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>   - This next issue is somewhat a matter of style, but I would recommend
>>   replacing the entire section "B" with:
>> 
>> B. If you accept, you will receive a follow-up message with the next steps
>>> for establishing you as a committer.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The above changes will make the invite letter simpler and more
>> straightforward.
>> 
>> 
> Once you've invited the person to be a committer, they should be able to
> submit the ICLA on their own.  Someone on the PMC/PPMC shouldn't need to
> tell them how to do it, but the instructions included in B are pretty clear
> and help that committer figure out how to submit the forms as needed.
> 
> 
>> I would be happy to submit these changes as a PR but someone will have to
>> tell me where to do this.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Lee.
>> 


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