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From Sheng Zha <zhash...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Distribution guidelines for platforms
Date Mon, 13 Jul 2020 05:28:27 GMT
Hi Justin,

While I appreciate your efforts in putting together the guidelines, your reply seems to indicate
that this guideline is not making new rules, which is apparently false. Specifically, you
wrote:

> Nothing as far as I can see is added only clarified and put into context for different
3rd party
> platforms.

This description suggests that the nature of this guideline is the interpretation of the
existing Apache policies in the context of distribution on third-party platform. Personally,
I believe that interpretation is still making new rules. After all, statutory interpretation
is one
of the main ways for making laws in common law legal system.

As a podling PPMC member, my main concern from the disagreement in this thread is that we
may end up
seeing podlings being bound by additional rules that the top-level projects are not bound
to. My
preference on how things should unfold, as I mentioned in the discussion thread, is still
to see the consensus built in the overall Apache
policies that binds everyone, not just the podlings.

Best regards,
Sheng


On 2020/07/12 22:35:34, Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com> wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> > A reference to http://www.apache.org/dev/#releases ought to be first from any incubator
policy or guidance page. Problems with the dev page should be addressed. If the Foundation
wide policy and guidance is weak then that should be fixed so that an Incubating podlings
can use the proper information.
> 
> These guidelines are about distribution of releases not making releases. The incubator
already has guidelines about releases [1] and it does reference http://www.apache.org/dev/#releases
at the top. This information does not replace that. But yes referencing [2] (ASF distribution
policy) is a good idea.
> 
> > To me the only way that the Incubator policy guidance differs from ASF policy guidance
is:
> > 
> > - Disclaimers
> > - IPMC vote on releases on general@
> > - Allowing non-Apache legacy releases in transition.
> 
> Also:
> - How PPMC member are elected
> - How press announced can be made
> - Branding and trademark
> 
> And guidance on how to follow other ASF policies. Mentors and IPMC members do that all
the time. This document helps in that regard and there is nothing in this document that isn’t
in policy elsewhere.
> 
> > I agree that guidance would be helpful for distribution channels other than those
Infrastructure supports, but that guidance should be at the Foundation level.
> 
> The Incubator has waited years for something to happen, the current draft policy doesn’t
address this, nor is it our remit to fix that policy. Do we just postpone all project graduations
that use other methods of distribution while we wait? Or prohibit them altogether? Or do we
provide best practice guidances that has input from the IPMC, legal and trademarks and has
been discussed on and off for over a year?
> 
> Currently we have more than one podling that are not following ASF policy on releases
and distribution. If they were pointed to and followed this document they would have be in
compliance.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html
> 2. https://infra.apache.org/release-distribution
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