From general-return-70478-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Tue Aug 13 14:43:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3551519743 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 72100 invoked by uid 500); 13 Aug 2019 14:43:49 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 71826 invoked by uid 500); 13 Aug 2019 14:43:49 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 71815 invoked by uid 99); 13 Aug 2019 14:43:49 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org) (10.10.3.159) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:43:49 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.142] (c-76-103-41-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.103.41.34]) by mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id 1876A84ED for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:43:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Dave Fisher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:43:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking Message-Id: References: <43712B5E-92B5-4E54-AE27-433330EA9EFA@classsoftware.com> <06C87657-F97F-418D-A627-3D0A62778777@apache.org> <0BFFCBFE-8DB0-4613-AE6B-2C86CAF7F4E3@pragmaticminds.de> <9F29B361-92B0-4D41-8C83-7049BF8A5E76@c-ware.de> <84DD5635-0096-4A84-A9EC-1A54416114AF@classsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: <84DD5635-0096-4A84-A9EC-1A54416114AF@classsoftware.com> To: general@incubator.apache.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G77) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean wrot= e: >=20 > HI, >=20 > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off curre= ntly you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking to joi= n, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in tend to= not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more frequently.= >=20 > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have s= uggested that the IPMC shouldn=E2=80=99t;t allow people to be added this way= . >=20 > The suggestion here isn=E2=80=99t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow= people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it ofte= n hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted in. [= 1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there are an= y likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are interested, you= =E2=80=99ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent times. In a= nother thread I=E2=80=99ve gone one step further and suggested that mentors l= ook out for people on their projects list who are release managers and vote o= n releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] (Option D). I a= gree the bar should be low. >=20 > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group to= auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not bein= g involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously this d= oesn=E2=80=99t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I c= an point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We=E2=80=99= ve even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their podli= ngs list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report. This is a different problem. I=E2=80=99ve seen nonmember mentors who were vo= ted in who never really do anything. Let=E2=80=99s face it life intrudes in o= ne way or another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually= fade away. Let=E2=80=99s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who fo= r whatever reason cannot help. Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully trust= ing the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These peopl= e have attained merit. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this sta= y. There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job an= d make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list f= or discussion. I reject the use of the verb =E2=80=9Cmake=E2=80=9D for this problem. We sho= uld =E2=80=9Chelp=E2=80=9D mentors and podling communities =E2=80=9Cbe=E2=80= =9D more engaged. We should =E2=80=9Chelp=E2=80=9D podlings and mentors when= Incubation is not working. Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership. We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able podl= ings and mentors into the Incubator. Regards, Dave >=20 > Thanks, > Justin >=20 > 1. https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21= d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > 2.https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441= 455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org