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[124.171.20.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 14sm24664612pfy.40.2019.08.20.21.41.39 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Aug 2019 21:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Justin Mclean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Mentor guidance document Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:41:23 +1000 References: <2910C92B-DD4E-4FC7-BA3A-51D27C2F087D@classsoftware.com> <83402042-2597-4F8C-A906-B15F636489E7@classsoftware.com> To: general@incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Hi, Sone thoughts inline. > Documentation does not solve the problem. I agree it doesn=E2=80=99t solve the whole problem. But it may give time = poor mentors more time to do other things if they can easily reference = collective knowledge on these issues. > If someone doesn't already "get" this stuff then they should not be = mentoring. We have had on occasion people who are mentoring who may not get this = stuff but were passionate supports of their projects, should we exclude = them? Some of this is down to inexperience, and mentoring is one of the = good ways to improve this knowledge and become a better mentor. Even if = you have gone though incubation and mentored a project before you may of = not come across the same situation and it=E2=80=99s not always obvious = how to apply the values, especially in case where there=E2=80=99s = conflict between those values (or ASF policies). > Having a document does not replace for selecting good mentors who have = the time to do the job right. 1-2 years (or more in some cases) a long commitment and life sometime = changes things, replacement mentors can=E2=80=99t in all cases be found, = so even if the initial condition is true, it may not be a year into teh = project. I had thought of making up a mentor capability / score card to help = podlings elect mentors if they don=E2=80=99t already have one. But = haven't suggested it previously as it would probably be unpopular and = could be used unproductively. > It's a good effort in the broader context, but doesn't solve the = problem I see in the IPMC (insufficient high quality mentoring coupled = with too much application of rules in the process).=20 Is that because you think don=E2=80=99t we have enough high quality = mentors? Or the ones we do have are spread a little too thin? Or that we = have these people but they are not mentoring projects? > How would I solve the problem? If I were championing another project = into the ASF I would carefully select mentors, just as I have in the = past. Being here along time and your previous / current positions would make = it easy for to be able to get the best mentors we have that are a good = fit for the project. I=E2=80=99m not sure that all new incubating = projects are able to do that. > I don't mean to say the effort you are putting in is wasted effort. = Clarity in what is expected can help the podlings,=20 Do any other mentors want to contribute to this or think it=E2=80=99s an = idea worth perusing? If not I=E2=80=99ll drop it and focus on something = else. > I don't see how this can really help those people I would already = trust to be good mentors i.e. People who have a vested interest in the = success of the project and already know how to apply the Apache Way to = new communities so that they might flourish in their own way. I not sure we actually have enough mentors with those abilities and = knowledge for all of the 50 odd podlings we have or a pool of idle = mentors than new projects can select from. Thanks,. Justin =20= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org