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From Justin Mclean <>
Subject Re: [MENTORS] Mentor guidance document
Date Wed, 21 Aug 2019 04:41:23 GMT

Sone thoughts inline.

> Documentation does not solve the problem.

I agree it doesn’t solve the whole problem. But it may give time poor mentors more time
to do other things if they can easily reference collective knowledge on these issues.

> If someone doesn't already "get" this stuff then they should not be mentoring.

We have had on occasion people who are mentoring who may not get this stuff but were passionate
supports of their projects, should we exclude them? Some of this is down to inexperience,
and mentoring is one of the good ways to  improve this knowledge and become a better mentor.
Even if you have gone though incubation and mentored a project before you may of not come
across the same situation and it’s not always obvious how to apply the values, especially
in case where there’s conflict between those values (or ASF policies).

> Having a document does not replace for selecting good mentors who have the time to do
the job right.

1-2 years (or more in some cases) a long commitment and life sometime  changes things, replacement
mentors can’t in all cases be found, so even if the initial condition is true, it may not
be a year into teh project.

I had thought of making up a mentor capability / score card to help podlings elect mentors
if they don’t already have one. But haven't suggested it previously as it would probably
be unpopular and could be used unproductively.

> It's a good effort in the broader context, but doesn't solve the problem I see in the
IPMC (insufficient high quality mentoring coupled with too much application of rules in the

Is that because you think don’t we have enough high quality mentors? Or the ones we do have
are spread a little too thin? Or that we have these people but they are not mentoring projects?

> How would I solve the problem? If I were championing another project into the ASF I would
carefully select mentors, just as I have in the past.

Being here along time and your previous / current positions would make it easy for to be able
to get the best mentors we have that are a good fit for the project. I’m not sure that all
new incubating projects are able to do that.

> I don't mean to say the effort you are putting in is wasted effort. Clarity in what is
expected can help the podlings, 

Do any other mentors want to contribute to this or think it’s an idea worth perusing? If
not I’ll drop it and focus on something else.

> I don't see how this can really help those people I would already trust to be good mentors
i.e. People who have a vested interest in the success of the project and already know how
to apply the Apache Way to new communities so that they might flourish in their own way.

I not sure we actually have enough mentors with those abilities and knowledge for all of the
50 odd podlings we have or a pool of idle mentors than new projects can select from.

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