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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@outlook.com>
Subject Re: [MENTORS] Mentor guidance document
Date Sun, 18 Aug 2019 21:35:38 GMT
Only replying because I'm called out explicitly.

Documentation does not solve the problem. If someone doesn't already "get" this stuff then
they should not be mentoring. Having a document does not replace for selecting good mentors
who have the time to do the job right.

It's a good effort in the broader context, but doesn't solve the problem I see in the IPMC
(insufficient high quality mentoring coupled with too much application of rules in the process).
The proposed doc is interesting but it's just more words, We need more action.

How would I solve the problem? If I were championing another project into the ASF I would
carefully select mentors, just as I have in the past. I'd select those who don't need the
above document and who I'm confident will pay attention and be constructive. I'd then work
with those mentors and the community to ensure people coming through the process are equipped
to help me on the next project I champion.

This is not new. It's how we setup the Incubator in the first place. But over the years it
has become a machine rather than personal relationships. More words about the design of the
machine won't change this.

I don't mean to say the effort you are putting in is wasted effort. Clarity in what is expected
can help the podlings, but I don't see how this can really help those people I would already
trust to be good mentors i.e. People who have a vested interest in the success of the project
and already know how to apply the Apache Way to new communities so that they might flourish
in their own way.

Ross


---

Sent from my phone, you know what that means - sorry

________________________________
From: Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 6:26:32 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Mentor guidance document

Hi,

I've had hoped I'd get more of a response to the mentor guidance documentation I suggested.
Perhaps it got lost in the other noise?

https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FINCUBATOR%2FMentor%2BGuidance&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C0e716c1bb8a74438cd0108d7237b24aa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016884106582384&amp;sdata=9v85p9zRNDFHPp3yJgpVp7GUz%2F0NDNvC8vQuZjT4X50%3D&amp;reserved=0

Jim and Ross, you have recently stated that you are concerned about the erosion of our values
and principles. It would be great to see your input on this. If you have other idea one how
these values can be better passed to incubating incubation it would be great to hear.

I also welcome other IPMC members who have experience and can offer some advice to other mentors.

Thanks,
Justin
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