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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: [MENTORS] Mentor guidance document
Date Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:52:09 GMT
Ross said everything that I would have said... only better.

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> Only replying because I'm called out explicitly.
> 
> Documentation does not solve the problem. If someone doesn't already "get" this stuff
then they should not be mentoring. Having a document does not replace for selecting good mentors
who have the time to do the job right.
> 
> It's a good effort in the broader context, but doesn't solve the problem I see in the
IPMC (insufficient high quality mentoring coupled with too much application of rules in the
process). The proposed doc is interesting but it's just more words, We need more action.
> 
> How would I solve the problem? If I were championing another project into the ASF I would
carefully select mentors, just as I have in the past. I'd select those who don't need the
above document and who I'm confident will pay attention and be constructive. I'd then work
with those mentors and the community to ensure people coming through the process are equipped
to help me on the next project I champion.
> 
> This is not new. It's how we setup the Incubator in the first place. But over the years
it has become a machine rather than personal relationships. More words about the design of
the machine won't change this.
> 
> I don't mean to say the effort you are putting in is wasted effort. Clarity in what is
expected can help the podlings, but I don't see how this can really help those people I would
already trust to be good mentors i.e. People who have a vested interest in the success of
the project and already know how to apply the Apache Way to new communities so that they might
flourish in their own way.
> 
> Ross
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Sent from my phone, you know what that means - sorry
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 6:26:32 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Mentor guidance document
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've had hoped I'd get more of a response to the mentor guidance documentation I suggested.
Perhaps it got lost in the other noise?
> 
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FINCUBATOR%2FMentor%2BGuidance&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C0e716c1bb8a74438cd0108d7237b24aa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016884106582384&amp;sdata=9v85p9zRNDFHPp3yJgpVp7GUz%2F0NDNvC8vQuZjT4X50%3D&amp;reserved=0
> 
> Jim and Ross, you have recently stated that you are concerned about the erosion of our
values and principles. It would be great to see your input on this. If you have other idea
one how these values can be better passed to incubating incubation it would be great to hear.
> 
> I also welcome other IPMC members who have experience and can offer some advice to other
mentors.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
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