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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: overzealous bureaucracy (was: [VOTE] Zipkin leave incubator, return back to OpenZipkin)
Date Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:24:49 GMT
Hi -

I agree with Greg and Bertrand to focusing on the Incubator's service orientation. And have
written in other threads that we should update our documentation.

A podling exit needs to be visible to the Incubator here on general@. (Jim’s clear trail)

(1) In order to maintain a record about the podling and where it went.
(2) To give visibility into how the podling code is moving. Suppose the podling codebase and
community were donated by organization A and the community decided to move to organization
B before all of the IP was properly transferred out of A?

I suggest that we use LAZY Consensus for podling retirement and an email from a mentor should
be prefixed with “[EXIT]” (or ASFexit ….)

The email should explain the situation and provide the forwarding address for updating podlings.xml
and if the podling's repositories and resources are to be marked (RO) and/or moved. Should
the podling’s current releases remain and for how long?

We should rewrite the retirement guide so that it is clear that should a podling decide to
return to where they were then we guarantee no issues from the Incubator. Generally we would
support movement to another place, but we can’t answer for all possible hypotheticals.


> On Jun 19, 2019, at 6:30 AM, Myrle Krantz <> wrote:
> An enthusiastic +1 from me, both for Bertrand's statement and Greg's
> characterization of it.
> : o),
> Myrle
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 2:55 PM Sheng Wu <> wrote:
>> +1 help/mentor/service
>> That is my only goal as mentor to ShardingSphere today. Provide
>> experiences and helps as much as I could.
>> Sheng Wu
>> Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
>>> 在 2019年6月19日,下午7:13,Greg Stein <> 写道:
>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:14 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
>>> <>> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 8:13 AM Greg Stein <> wrote:
>>>>> ...Let's talk about the overzealous bureaucracy of the IPMC...
>>>> IMO something that can help fix that is declaring that the IPMC's goal
>>>> is to *provide services to podlings so they can become top-level ASF
>>>> Projects".
>>>> Currently, many things in the Incubator make it appear more like a
>>>> *stern gatekeeper for entry to the ASF" - like this overzealous
>>>> bureaucracy that you mention and that is often perceptible.
>>>> The difference is subtle but it can influence the IPMC's culture.
>>> Thank you, Bertrand! ... as always, you have a knack for looking at
>> culture.
>>> My commentary is usually rather ham-handed, but yes: what you describe is
>>> where I'd like to see the Incubator head. Stop the gatekeeping/rules, and
>>> focus on help/mentor/service.
>>> Thanks,
>>> -g

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