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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: Incubation Pain Points
Date Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:47:21 GMT

> On Jun 18, 2019, at 4:42 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 1:18 PM Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
>> ...prepping the existing community regarding what "moving to the ASF means" is the
job of the Champion, no?...
> I agree but it has to be based on written docs, not oral tradition as
> that does not scale.
> does address this at least partly, IMO.

There has not been much traction on the cookbook changes that you started.

(1) I think a refocus on the cookbook would be helpful.

As part of the Cookbook update we should make sure of the main points of the Apache Way /
Culture / minimums are documented. Alex’s list else thread is as good a start as any.

(2) Thanks for linking to the Board thread from February. There is some support there for
allowing Podling Releases to entirely PPMC based assuming there is enough Mentor engagement.

Advantages included:
- Keeps Releases in the Community. Provided they meet minimums.
- Avoids the need for “heroics” from those who review 100s of releases.

Disadvantages might include:
- Initial Podling Releases cannot be wholly under the "legal shield" depending on how that
is interpreted.
- Some think that Release issues won’t be handled until just before graduation.

I propose that the IPMC comfirms an updated policy that we expect that Podling’s Apache
Releases initially conform to a minimum that includes a DISCLAIMER that is invariant aside
from the podling name, and fits Apache Distribution Policy plus including “-incubator”
or “-incubating” in the filenames of all artifacts except the KEYS.

Before graduation each of the podling’s released products must be confirmed by their Mentors
to conform to Apache Release Policy. If there are not enough active Mentors then the podling
should (a) request additional mentors and/or (b) request a review on general@. Such a review
should not be during the release of a version of the product. If the Mentors have any concerns
or questions then they can request the review from general@ themselves.

(3) Does anyone have a sense about how many retired podlings where failure to incubate was
due to release problems? And, if so can that be differentiated from other community issues?

(4) Convenience Binary releases need careful discussion in another thread since these are
ever evolving as new packaging and container technology is under continual development. I
think that this is another thread that should be pursued after we settle on Podling Release

> -Bertrand
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