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From Hen <>
Subject Re: [IMPORTANT] Board proposal on podling releases
Date Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:44:08 GMT
On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 4:11 PM Justin Mclean <>

> Hi,
> > I agree with other respondents that 'serious' seems bad here. To me the
> > serious ones are the only ones they can't release with.
> So we just continue as is then? You have any suggests to what we change?

I don't think we're using the same word meanings.

I think that serious = release blocker; but I equally think there are very
few items that are serious.

> > ReleaseBlocking:  Has a LICENSE.  Legally permitted to release and
> complies
> > with the license via some mechanism.
> We currently allow releases that are not strictly legal. This would be a
> step backwards.
I'd love to hear some examples. I suspect they are all legal.

Speculating hypothetically:

* We should never make a release that we know there is some content in that
we explicitly do not have permission to publish.
* We should never make a release that we know contains content that is
criminal (for whatever that would mean).

Other than that... I'm not sure what else would come under 'all legal'

> > GraduationBlocking:  Everything else; including complying with the
> license
> > via our preferred mechanism (i.e. we might want the MIT license text in
> our
> > LICENSE file, but would accept it being in the source header of the files
> > themselves).
> We currently allow podlings to graduate with some issues as longs as the
> PPMC is dealing with them. This would be a step backwards.
Yeah. We need a third category for "MehNotBlockingPleaseFix".

> > I don't see a need to go to the board on this :)
> If we don’t want to change anything - sure there's no need to go to the
> board.

I'd definitely like to see change. My feeling is that there's a lot we can
make that falls comfortably within the scope of the Incubator PMC. IIRC the
release policies came out of the Incubator; I don't recall there being a
request for the board to ratify them, but I might be failing to remember
something a decade+ ago :)

> >> issues have been fixed. The IPMC will add additional information to the
> > incubator DISCLAIMER to cover that podling release may not abide by all
> >
> > The IPMC? That sounds like a people scaling problem. The podling
> committee
> > should handle it.
> I mean just changing this page [1] , podlings can update their own
> disclaimers.

Gotya :)

> > "This release still has the following issues that will need to be
> resolved
> > before the Foo Project can graduate to an Apache vetted Top Level
> Project”
> What about unknown issues?

By that are you suggesting that the text implies a guarantee that those are
the only issues? (Otherwise I'm off into philosophy of whether the unknown
can exist when the only test makes it known :) ).

"The Foo Project have currently identified the following issues that will
need to be resolved before the project can graduate to an Apache vetted Top
Level Project”

Any better?

> > Are the board lawyers? :) Until you have a well-defined list, I doubt
> > anything could be confirmed. I'd go with:  "Conceptually what you
> describe
> > could lead to a situation where a PPMC releases a project fully compliant
> > with the ASF's expectations. “
> I assume you mean “not fully compliant”?


I was being defensive in my broad statements. For the given question; sure,
someone might manage a perfect release someday :)


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