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From Antoine Toulme <>
Subject Re: late learnings, which could be helpful for all mentors to know
Date Wed, 05 Jun 2019 04:23:45 GMT
Thanks Adrian, this is all good to know.

> On Jun 4, 2019, at 9:21 PM, Adrian Cole <> wrote:
> Hi, all.
> Through Zipkin's incubation, I noticed that knowledge of state of the
> art is not equally distributed. Some voting approaches already in use
> aren't known. Also what you can use to automate isn't known. As
> podlings don't always know the right questions to ask, it might be
> beneficial for future podlings if some advice about state of the art
> was taught instead. This is especially important as many projects will
> likely want to import multiple repos. I will inventory some.
> * "parallel votes" is a technique to reduce the lag between dev@ and
> general@ by starting the IPMC vote slightly after, but before
> conclusion of the PPMC one. This may have only been tried once (in
> Zipkin) and met resistance.
> * "bundled votes" is a technique where multiple repos are sent in a
> single vote. This is much more efficient for coupled repos than
> pipelining. OpenWhisk uses this and don't appear to have met
> resistance.
> * not all repos need to actually release prior to graduation. Both
> Dubbo and OpenWhisk had unreleased repos when they called for
> graduation (OpenWhisk has dozens). It isn't intuitive for projects to
> know they don't have to release every repo, so they should be told
> this.
> * Jenkins is most ASF, but Travis is ok, but CircleCI is not, and
> maybe Appveyor is ok.  All we know now, is that CircleCI is not ok,
> which is personally fine, but basically people should be able to know
> what CI tools are allowed to be used.
> * You are allowed to automate release process, even with Travis. It
> can be confusing to know what you are allowed to automate, and whether
> it must be done with ASF infra etc. The most elaborate example is
> * ASF tools like RAT and the release plugin are barely maintained in
> comparison with Incubator policy. It is unintuitive that tools
> projects use to audit themselves don't evolve lock-step with general
> software, policy and discussion. This feels bad whenever told, but
> earlier is better.
> Anyway, figured I would send off these notes so that folks entering
> the incubator don't end up with a lot of unnecessary grief, irritation
> due to ignorance about state of the art, or the disparity between
> project-specific ASF tools and general ASF tools.
> -A
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