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From Alex Harui <>
Subject Re: Incubation Pain Points
Date Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:32:09 GMT

´╗┐On 6/18/19, 5:03 AM, "Jim Jagielski" <> wrote:

    > On Jun 18, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <>
    > On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 1:18 PM Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
    >> ...prepping the existing community regarding what "moving to the ASF means" is
the job of the Champion, no?...
    > I agree but it has to be based on written docs, not oral tradition as
    > that does not scale.
    Of course... but lack of it being on written docs does not make it invalid nor not policy.
Just trying to follow these threads, it isn't clear there is agreement, even among the "old-timers",
as to what the invariants really are whether written or oral.

For example, I'm a bit surprised that none of the old-timers disagreed that there is an Apache
Culture and that incubation is about assimilating into that culture.  I thought I read many
times on various ASF lists that the ASF is comprised of many projects each with their own
culture.  And that the only common ground is a "Way" not a "Culture".  But then various folks
try to define the "Apache Way" and other folks disagree with their definition.

At least in the US, there are many places where the residents have formed or retained their
own culture.  Folks immigrating to the US are not required to assimilate into any particular
aspect of US culture.  They are only asked to obey certain laws.  And even then, the strictness
of law enforcement is somewhat influenced by the local culture and context.

What really are the invariants at the ASF that require strict inflexible immediate enforcement?
 I think there are really only a relatively small number of them:

1) No closed source in a release
2) No CatX in a release
3) No corporation owns decision making
4) Majority vote on releases
5) No advertising the general availability of non-releases.
6) A protocol for handling security issues.
7) ASF does not pay developers
8) Don't violate US Non-Profit rules

A podling could be granted more flexibility around #2 and #5 with the additional requirement
of DISCLAIMER and -incubating labels.

Could everything else really be seen as goals for a community?  Then it would be "Community
over Code and Policy except these 8 things".

My 2 cents,
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